What killed the Linux desktop • Hacker News Board

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#361

Post by jvm » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 3:37 PM UTC

nathanb wrote: post #360

jvm wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What distro are you running? It must be sort of out there that you're having such difficulties. I'm running Arch which is not widely supported, but user submitted build recipes (think brew on OSX but with way more options) work 95% of the time (e.g., no trouble with Skype, Spotify, etc.)

I'm running Arch as well, though I don't use the AUR. Stuff tends to crustify too much and too easily in there.

Once you install yaourt or packer though it's really easy to at least see if the AUR package works (Skype works fine, e.g.). If not then maybe you're on your own, but if you're having trouble it can still be useful to see how someone else built it in the past.

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#362

Post by teach » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 4:26 PM UTC

tesseractive wrote: post #281

teach wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an issue with Apple or Samsung, it's an Android decision. Support for the USB Mass Storage protocol has been deprecated in Android in favor of MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) starting with Ice Cream Sandwich. The experience in Windows and on Linux is just as poor with this phone. (I love the phone, though.)

I haven't had any trouble using a Nexus 7 with Windows, it's worked like a charm. What's supposed to be the huge problem with MTP, exactly?

I take that back, my Galaxy S III does work as expected using MTP with Windows 7. Previously my workplace was using an older Windows.

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#363

Post by hollerith » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 5:10 PM UTC

Derbasti wrote: post #138

masklinn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually prefer the graphical shell of Windows 7 to the one of OSX Lion. Explorer? Versus finder? That's a pretty low-hanging fruit, I can't remember ever preferring finder to explorer and I've been using OSX as my main dev machine (and Windows mostly for the game box) for 6 years now. I prefer OSX overall, but the finder still isn't a good shell.

I was going to leave a snarky comment with just a list of awful OSX applications here. But then I looked at a list of the applications I have installed and... Well, while many of them might be bad, their usual alternatives on Windows aren't exactly better. But Finder really is bad. Then again, I wish ANY other OS would implement the column view Finder has. As bad as Finder is, column view is awesome. But many of the…

>Or HFS+, which still has a global lock whenever ANY application wants to write to the file system. A GLOBAL lock. No other program may access the hard drive while one is writing. Insanity!.

Could that be the reason I had to disable Spotlight's indexer to prevent bouts of extreme unresponsiveness on my 2011 Mac mini?

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#364

Post by mratzloff » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 6:32 PM UTC

msbarnett wrote: post #277

mratzloff wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure... so why the culture difference?

Because developers understand what they want and need from their own tools. Now, they might have different wants, and disagree on how to meet their needs, and march off in 800 different directions, but ultimately with enough effort any one group is capable of meeting their own needs. UI/UX that works well for "normal people" is something that most developers don't understand ; they know the UI/UX that meets their nee…

Nicely put. Seems reasonable.

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#365

Post by chimeracoder » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 6:42 PM UTC

jfaucett wrote: post #24

chimeracoder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by 'an IO device'? I can count on one hand the number of driver issues I've had, and none of them qualify as IO devices.

monitors/graphics cards,printers,modems,network cards,joysticks,etc.

Are you using really old hardware? I've never had any problems with any of the above. Monitors should be plug-and-play if you're using a modern DE (and if you're not, you probably know how to set them up). If you have separate graphics card, you may have issues with battery life, but that depends on the model, and they still work.

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#366

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 6:42 PM UTC

jfaucett wrote: post #24

chimeracoder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by 'an IO device'? I can count on one hand the number of driver issues I've had, and none of them qualify as IO devices.

monitors/graphics cards,printers,modems,network cards,joysticks,etc.

[deleted]

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#367

Post by keithpeter » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 6:44 PM UTC

migueldeicaza wrote: post #174

keithpeter wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm glad you did write Gnumeric. The graphs module with that tree like properties box is really nice to use.

Jody Goldberg and the Gnumeric community deserve the credit for the graphics module, not me. But I am glad you enjoy Gnumeric.

Whoever did the design of the graphics module was cooking on gas. The whole app is light and nice.

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#368

Post by ansgri » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:50 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #336

cooldeal wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Windows is horrible to use, everything is poorly designed Without qualifiers, that statement is meaningless. Perhaps you mean it's horrible for some devs? (Millions of others are doing just fine with Visual Studio). For regular users, dropping them to Linux will be like replacing your mom's car's controls with the controls found in an airplane cockpit(command line) or playing "who moved my cheese ?" with the Linux d…

Wasn't talking about visual studio, I mean the UX as a whole. It is hugely inconsistent, slow, and hard to get sane information about whats going on. Once you are in an application, then generally its ok, its just up to that application, other than things like where new windows are created which are also broken. Oh and focus and switching, as things are always getting hidden.

Application UX inconsistency is a Mac thing AFAIK. Yes they all look 'pretty' and 'likable', but not consistent. Most decent Windows apps are modeled one after another and are very consistent. They have such things as status bars, sidebars, menus, list views. Usually standard controls, though times are changing with the advent of XAML and web-like interfaces.

And man tell me where should I have gone to get any information about why my _wired_ Ethernet connection wasn't working on Mac when it worked everywhere else?

[UPD: I'd give iOS apps 2/5 on consistency scale, Android, Linux and OSX 3/5, Windows 4/5].

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#369

Post by kmm » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:05 PM UTC

mbell wrote: post #301

kmm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When have you last used Linux? Drivers haven't been an issue anymore for years now. I don't actually see any problems with Linux. It's just not meant to be.

As a desktop OS, tried it again 3 weeks ago. Fairly standard setup, Asus motherboard, core i7 3770, 32GB of ram, one dell display@ 2560x1440 one at 1920x1200 in portrait, base AMD 7xxx series gpu, newest ubuntu with AMD binary drivers. First the graphics driver locked up on rotating a screen, that required reboot, even switching to a non graphical tty didn't work, then it took but z-sync was completely disabled on th…

If you don't care and aren't willing to listen, you cannot have a well-informed opinion and cannot pretend you do.

Re: What killed the Linux desktop

#370

Post by sjs » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:59 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #182

sjs wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you expected a clone of Windows and were predictably disappointed. > I got maybe three hours of the supposed 7 hour battery You should have taken it back. Seriously. > Perhaps I'm set in my ways You hit the nail on the head here. There's nothing wrong with that but most of your complaints amount to "this is not what I am used to". > the absolute insanse window switching behavior On Windows and Linux I…

On (...) Linux I cannot switch to an app bringing all windows to the front, I have to do it one at a time. Sure you can. Just launch (or move) each application to its own virtual desktop. You can even group them logically, like an email reader with an IM client! What if I wanted to switch back and use that app again? Window and Linux applications are not disposable, they can be launched more than once.

> Window and Linux applications are not disposable, they can be launched more than once.

But when the last window is closed the application quits. What if I want to keep it running because I will switch back and open something in a minute? On Windows & Linux I have to launch the app again.

I'm not arguing for one or the other here, just illustrating that this argument is based on familiarity not one actually being better than the other. Each has pluses and minuses.