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Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

cnn.com

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#361

Post by closewith »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #343
timewizard wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an entire division of the military that is literally police. They serve a similar function to their civilian counterparts. There's also intelligence and logistics units.

2/7 is an infantry battalion. They have no training or experience policing. I was a member of an infantry battalion once tasked with doing policing in a foreign country. Let me just say that the outcome was exactly what you’d expect. We were very effective at responding with overwhelming force to attacks by an insurgency but pretty ineffective at keeping the peace.

> We were very effective at responding with overwhelming force to attacks by an insurgency

I don't think you were, since all US COIN operations in living memory have been abject failures.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#362

Post by TiredOfLife »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

[flagged]

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#363

Post by watwut »

timewizard wrote: post #330
motorest wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? The Nazis leveraged hatred towards minorities as a wedge to force their totalitarian control over Germany's state and society. They built up a ficticious enemy within, they inflamed society against that enemy, and proceeded to promise they would eliminate that enemy if the were granted total…

> they inflamed society against that enemy They blamed them for pre-existing social problems. I feel the important context was that the government had to be significantly dysfunctional for the Nazi party to even exist.

They also blamed them for non existent problems and for problems Nazi intentionally and consciously created.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#364

Post by watwut »

BrenBarn wrote: post #339
peterbecich wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOP and Dems have been nearly evenly matched for years in Congress now. There was no prospect of dramatic legal overhaul i.m.o., let alone any new Constitutional amendments. Graph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_Stat...

And they're still nearly evenly matched and Trump is still doing what he's doing. The Democrats could have done all the same stuff Trump is doing, but for good instead of evil. The problem is that the Democrats are not willing to accept that the system is entirely broken, so they keep clinging to a belief in "institutions" that they think will somehow magically protect us, when in fact those institutions are destroyi…

You can not destroy democracy and rule of law for the good. By definition, you are destroying democracy and rule of law. Even if you believe yourself to be good, and Trump and MAGA are under that illusion, you are doing something horrible.

Democrats could not do it. If they had done it, they would be as bad as Trump is now.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#365

Post by spencerflem »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #362
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#366

Post by JumpCrisscross »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #362
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

[flagged]

> Foreign nationals waving flag of their nation, attacking citizens and being in country without permission. Smells like invasion

But is not. Invasions are military offensives involving combatants of a geopolitical entity [1].

If this is an invasion, every rally in which a Confederate flag is waived is a rebellion. Also, § 4 concludes with "and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence." The Constitution is very clear about the scope of executive military power within the United States because they weren't illiterate and knew how Rome's republics fell [2].

Hell, even when Hamilton argued for federal control of militias, he underscored that its risk "to the liberties of the people" was mitigated by the fact that the states "have the SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS," emphasis his [3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

[2] https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed70.asp

[3] https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed29.asp

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#367

Post by rozab »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #362
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

[flagged]

If that's the case then let's trigger article 5 and declare war on Mexico! Oh what, you don't actually believe this and just want to hold it in your head as a fiction to excuse the cognitive dissonance of authoritarianism?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#368

Post by locuscoeruleus »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #362
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

[flagged]

> Smells like invasion.

No, it doesn't.

What country is using what army to invade USA?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#369

Post by hotmeals »

kpw94 wrote: post #302
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One fights the enemies of the state "At stake is a fundamental component of the framework of US constitutional democracy. It begins with the principle, enshrined in law, that military forces exist to protect the country from existential threats — such as an invasion or rebellion — not to enforce the law. Most fundamentally, the founders of the American republic understood very clearly that concentrated military pow…

> military forces exist to protect the country from existential threats — such as an invasion or rebellion — not to enforce the law. serious question: are Countries such as Italy, France etc not a democracy? All of them are, verbatim from wikipedia, "a military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population.". Ditto for spain Guardia Civil, and many of the countries listed in that same wiki page: Alg…

Some of the cases you mention involve "military" police who are under the authority of the Ministry of the Interior, instead of the Ministry of Defense. Many also are not the only police force, in Chile the investigative duties fall to the non-military PDI.

IMO as Chilean, it's a pretty bad thing democratically, for both historical (dictatorship) and more recent reasons. Still, there is a clear difference between when the police with deep ties to the army enforce the law and when actual troops do it.

While copper Gutiérrez and grunt Herrera both technically have the rank of corporal, one mostly writes tickets, deals with noise complaints, and has riot training, while the other only knows how to march and shoot an assault rifle.

The actually important thing is that this is testing the waters. Trump will use the troops for flimsier and flimsier reasons.

NOTE: Chilean police are semi-routinely brutal; this is not an endorsement.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#370

Post by jampekka »

lordnacho wrote: post #334
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One fights the enemies of the state "At stake is a fundamental component of the framework of US constitutional democracy. It begins with the principle, enshrined in law, that military forces exist to protect the country from existential threats — such as an invasion or rebellion — not to enforce the law. Most fundamentally, the founders of the American republic understood very clearly that concentrated military pow…

Well I hate to disparage a large group of people, but how often have you spoken to an American who understands this type of social-legal history of the country, and values it? Although I know quite a lot of (what I consider) well-educated Americans, it is also the only country from which I regularly meet the type of person who doesn't care at all about how society works (also, technology, history, art, etc). You'll p…

I meet these in my home country Finland all the time nowadays. They've probably been there all along but have been emboldened and riled up by the rise and normalization of the far-right.

My read is that this is even further along in many places in Europe.

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