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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#361

Post by sekai »

skepticATX wrote: post #307
nrjames wrote: post #70

This is technically impressive and I commend the team that brought it to life. It makes me sad, though. I wish we were pushing AI more to automate non-creative work and not burying the creatives among us in a pile of AI generated content.

The fact that so many feel the same way about this technology (I do too!) is an indictment of humanity, not the technology itself. We _could_ use this to empower humans, but many of us instinctively know that it will instead be used to crush the human spirit. The end result of this isn’t going to be an expansion of creative ability, it’s going to be the destruction of creative jobs and the capture of these creative m…

> We _could_ use this to empower humans, but many of us instinctively know that it will instead be used to crush the human spirit. The end result of this isn’t going to be an expansion of creative ability, it’s going to be the destruction of creative jobs and the capture of these creative mediums by a few large companies.

The same was said about the camera or photoshop.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#362

Post by rafaelmn »

baxtr wrote: post #353

A whale coming out of the street in Manhattan, a women with a Jellyfish belly walking in the woods. Why is it that all these AI concept videos are completely crazy?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say because it's easiest to take whatever comes out looking interesting and sell it as a vibe ?

Like if you asked a model to help you create a coffeeshop website for a demo, it started looking more like sex shop, you just vibe with it and say that's what you wanted in the first place. I've noticed that the success rate of using AI is proportional to much you can gaslight yourself.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#363

Post by npinsker »

bigmadshoe wrote: post #322
vunderba wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to nail down a good objective metric on something that is always going to be marginally qualitative in nature but it's a good call out - I should probably add a FAQ to the site. To clarify this test is purely a PASS/FAIL - unsuccessful means that the model NEVER managed to generate an image adhering to the prompt. So as an example, Midjourney 7 did not manage to generate the correct vertical stack of transl…

Makes sense. It just set off some statistical alarm bells in my head to see a model marked as passing with 1 trial, and some models marked as failing with 5. What if the probability of success is 5% for both models? How confident are we that our grading of the models is correct? It's an interesting problem. Cool site btw! Thanks for sharing.

The current metric is actually quite strong -- it mirrors the real-world use case of people trying a few times and being satisfied if any of them's what they're looking for. It rewards diversity of responses.

Actually, search engines do this this too: Google something with many possible meanings -- like "egg" -- on Google, and you'll get a set of intentionally diversified results. I get Wikipedia; then a restaurant; then YouTube cooking videos; Big Green Egg's homepage; news stories about egg shortages. Each individual link is very unlike the others to maximize the chance that one of them's the one you want.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#364

Post by hollowturtle »

ehsankia wrote: post #291
hollowturtle wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a prompt describe creativity? It's a vision so far off that it's so frustrating because greater creativity came from limited tools, greater creativity came from imperfections, a different point of view, love, a slightly off touch of a painter or a guitar player, the wood of the instrument and the humidity affecting. I can go on and on, prompts are a reduction to the minimum term of everything you'd want to d…

I agree that limitation does lead to some creativity, but I wouldn't say lack of limitation means no creativity. Saying prompts have no creativity is like saying books or scripts have no creativity compared to a movie. Not only that, these tools can actually take images and sketches. Imagine a world where you have a scene fully sketched out in your head (i.e. creativity), you have the script of what will happen, sket…

Imagine a world where(spoiler alert you shouldn't it's already there) your vision is limited by yourself and a light technician gives a different point of view that you like, a punk pioneer in your team that is the computer graphics chief animator that gives life to your animatronics(jurassic park, and still unmatched today, cgi looks so fake and cheap). And yes you should spend a lot of time, not necessarily money, because art is time and something you have spent zero time in it its valued zero money

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#365

Post by colordrops »

plokiju wrote: post #352
colordrops wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone cracked the nut of making videos longer than a few seconds though? No one seems to have made any progress on this. This is all nearly worthless until that is addressed.

I thought that for a while. Until it was pointed out to me that most long videos are made of 6 second shots. Generating a long video one shot at a time kind of makes sense, as long as there's good consistency between shots

It would narrow down what you could do by quite a bit if you are limited to 6 seconds per shot. While that is average, there are many shots that are longer. Also, you bring up a good point about consistency between shots. That doesn't seem like as hard of a problem, but it's still a big one.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#366

Post by aimxhaisse »

ahtihn wrote: post #185
duped wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't people be happy that more individuals would be soon able to create freely in a more accessible way? The gates are wide open for those that want to put in effort to learn. What AI is doing to creative professionals is putting them out of a job by people who are cheap and lazy. Art is not inaccessible. It's never been cheaper and easier to make art than today even without AI. > Personally I can't wait to se…

> The gates are wide open for those that want to put in effort to learn. Why is effort a requirement? Why should being an artist be a viable job? Would you be against technology that makes medical doctors obsolete?

On effort being a requirement: part of art is around playing with limits of a medium and finding a way in it, it takes a lot of trials, attempts, and errors for an artist to make their way. It's not a requirement per se, but something needed for someone to intent something different. Not worried about creative ways where artists explore AI, new things will come out of it and it's going to be interesting. Not worried either about post-modernists who already dropped requirements long time ago and tape bananas to walls, they'll find their way. But the category artists who make their way through the effort put in a medium, not only the narrative around the medium will be affected.

On jobs: craftsmanship is slightly different than art: industries are built with people who can craft, there is today an artistic part in it but it's not the essence of the job: the ads industry can work with lower quality ads provided they can spam 10x. There is however an overlap between art/craftmanship: a lot of people working in these industries can today be in a balance where they live with a salary and dedicate time to explore their mediums. We know what will happen when the craftmanship part is replaced by AI, being an artist will require to have the balance in the first place.

It feels like a regression: it leads to a reduction of ideas/explorations, a saturation of the affected mediums, a loss of intent. Eager to see what new things come out of it though.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#367

Post by hollowturtle »

jryle70 wrote: post #317
renerick wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely absurd and reductive point of view, which I always assume is a cop out. Just because it's called "machine learning" doesn't mean it actually has anything to do with how human learning or human brain works, and it's certainly not "exactly how" or "very same". There's much more going on on in human creative process, aside from mere "mixing": personal experience, understanding of the creative process,…

> personal experience, understanding of the creative process, technique and style development, subtext, hidden ideas and nuances All of these are just human being exposed more to life and learning new skills, in other words -- having more data. LLM already learns those skills and encounters endless experience of people in its training data. > I hate this argument That's very subjective. You don't know how the brain w…

You seem to not fully understand the quote. LLMs learn patterns/noises from an existing output, these are not skills nor endless experience learned. It's like saying you learn how to make a cake by learning how it should look like not how it's composed. LLMs mock the studio ghibli style images, didn't invent the style or learned the endless experience the studio accumulated over the years. In fact it's a mocking of the images and it just looks horrible

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#368

Post by weatherlite »

kilpikaarna wrote: post #358
weatherlite wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The end result of this isn’t going to be an expansion of creative ability, it’s going to be the destruction of creative jobs and the capture of these creative mediums by a few large companies. I agree , but that's the negative. The positive will be that almost any service you can imagine (medical diagnosis, tax preparation, higher education) will come down to zero, and with a lag of perhaps a decade or two it will…

> The positive will be that almost any service you can imagine (medical diagnosis, tax preparation, higher education) will come down to zero Why would you want massive amounts more of those things? In fact I might even argue that medicine, taxation and education are a net negative on society already. And that to the extent that there seems to be scarcity, it's mainly a distribution problem having to do with entrenche…

> Why would you want massive amounts more of those things? In fact I might even argue that medicine, taxation and education are a net negative on society already. And that to the extent that there seems to be scarcity, it's mainly a distribution problem having to do with entrenched interests and bureaucracy.

I'm not sure what you mean. In my country getting a specialist to take a look at you can take weeks, the scarcity is that there's not enough doctors. For sure many people get delayed and suboptimal diagnosis (even if you finally get to see the specialist, he may have 10 mintues for you and 50 other patients to see that day). A.I can simply solve this.

> The cost of building a new house or railway will plummet to the cost of the material and the land

>> That's is the actual scarcity tho

Not necessarily, the labor costs a tremendous amount, and also it might be that we don't need to cram tens of millions of people around cities anymore if most work is automated, we can start spreading out (again, this will take decades and I'm not denying we have pressing problems in the immediate future).

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#369

Post by jonplackett »

bamboozled wrote: post #328
brunoborges wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Growing fast" is questionable these days. There is an ever growing percentage of new AI-generated videos among every set of daily uploads. How long until more than half of uploads in a day are AI-generated?

In the future, a new intelligent species will roam the earth, they will ask, "why did their civilization fall?" The answer? These homo-sapiens strip mined the Earth and exacerbated climate change to generate enough power to make amusing cat videos...

It’s the much-feared the paper clip apocalypse, but we did it to ourselves with cat clips.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#370

Post by franga2000 »

brunoborges wrote: post #327
_ncuy wrote: post #311

Google hit the jackpot with their acquisition of YouTube and it's now paying dividend. YouTube is the largest single source of data and traffic on the Internet, and it's still growing fast. I think this data will prove incredibly important to robotics as well. It's a shame they sold Boston Dynamics in one of their dumbest ever moves because of bad PR.

"Growing fast" is questionable these days. There is an ever growing percentage of new AI-generated videos among every set of daily uploads. How long until more than half of uploads in a day are AI-generated?

And google is in the best possible position to detect it if they want to exclude it from their datasets.
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