Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

clientserver.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 380 posts

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#361

Post by nyrikki »

marcusb wrote: post #40
nyrikki wrote: post #21

> Everybody in a meeting should give input or they shouldn’t be in the meeting At several companies I was at this rule would have removed the last slack time I had to fix, refactor and maintain systems. I actually asked a manager to add me to a monthly 2 hour 50+ people reoccurring meeting just so I could do some refactoring. I guess that is a form of Malicious compliance.

I think the better rule is to empower people to remove themselves from meetings they don't need to attend. Inviting anyone and everyone in case they might be needed is a real problem at most big companies I've worked for or with.

While I agree, sometimes working to repair problems is required to get there.

Sometimes one has to demonstrate value to counteract the cultural erosion caused by action and outcome bias to enable that empowerment.

These big wasteful meetings are typically a product of action and outcome biases, and one needs to have a medium and longer term strategy to address them which is exactly why my manager was willing to sponsor it.

My intention was to deliver value when the team thought it was impossible.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#362

Post by bumby »

shakna wrote: post #257
bumby wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to expect the professor to give you a reasonable accommodation for an affliction you didn’t even realize you had. If you want to hold him accountable for his (unfair?) rules, you need to first hold yourself accountable for getting the disease diagnosed.

The world we live in, with the people we live with, require accomodations every single day. Not locking a door allows the students who were delayed on the road by a car accident, as much as the disabled student who took five minutes longer than expected after falling down some stairs. Every single person makes mistakes at times. If those are not absorbed by flexibility, then they go on to affect everyone else connect…

>If the professor is delayed due to a tire puncture, should they lose their tenure?

This seems like a false equivalency. The student isn’t getting dropped from their degree program, they’re missing a class. If a professor is late, especially habitually late, I may not advocate for them losing tenure, but I’d certainly expect it to have a smaller impact like being brought up in a performance review.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#363

Post by Groxx »

volemo wrote: post #343
Groxx wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also allows you to have "1 hour" classes that are at 10am and 11am, and you aren't forced to leave early or arrive late. A 5m gap isn't enough for huge numbers of classes in many campuses.

How much can you actually do in 1 hour that’s 45 minutes long? All my classes were 1.5 hours long. Yet professors still regularly chose to introduce new material on days with back-to-back classes, leaving standalone classes for practice or “less important” topics.

>How much can you actually do in 1 hour that’s 45 minutes long?

Almost exactly as much as one that's 55 (or 60) minutes long but many people are late to.

But yes, "1 hour" is fairly short for any deep topic progress. I vastly prefer classes that are 2 or 3, it gives time to have questions and not be in a blind rush.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#364

Post by er4hn »

ketzo wrote: post #234
buzer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Finland the universities (and I believe in many other European universities have/had this as well) there was "academic quarter" which meant that if something was scheduled for 10am it would actually start at 10:15am. IIRC if they used precise time (10:00) then it would actually start at that time. I've heard it dates back to when people didn't have easy access to precise time. It would allow students to hear the h…

This thread is absolutely fascinating — American, never heard of this practice (esp ct/st), and desperately want it in my life now!

UC Berkeley had this as well, at least as of the class of 2010. I think it was called "berkeley time" or something along those lines.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#365

Post by bumby »

sunderw wrote: post #332
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is baffling that you are claiming “can’t show up on time” is something professors need to work around as a reasonable accommodation. In cases where a student shows up 10+ minutes late to a course and disrupts the lecture, what percentage of the time do you estimate the reason for tardiness is a diagnosed or undiagnosed illness or hardship.

Then maybe the easy solution is to make sure anyone showing up late doesn't disrupt anything? That accommodates everyone, is flexible, and does not unfairly punish anyone. _THAT_ is flexibility.

Isn't it reasonable that we try to disrupt each other as much as possible as a default? It seems odd to force that responsibility onto another party. (ie it's weird to assume the professor is responsible for making sure another adult isn't disruptive)

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#366

Post by bumby »

sunderw wrote: post #333
CrimsonRain wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is _often_ late, your inability to be there in time is not someone else's problem. Unfairly punished...gimme a break.

That's a common point of view, but when your disability is never someone else's problem, it becomes waaaaaay harder to manage. You should display more empathy to people that don't follow the norm.

Except in this case, there is no information to the other party that someone has a disability. So the default that we assume someone has a disability is what most people take umbrage with.

I try to be generous as much as is reasonable. I generally assume the person who cuts me off in traffic may have an urgent need, but vaulting every misdeed to an assumption that it's due to some unknown disability crosses into unreasonable territory, if for nothing else than it's probabilistically a bad assumption. Taken to the extreme, it becomes enabling for everyone who does not have a disability but gets away with bad behavior.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#367

Post by 542354234235 »

gnfargbl wrote: post #210
dunham wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Michigan State, I had a math prof (Wade Ramey) who would lock the door after class started. If you were late, you couldn't attend. He also insisted students purchase a stapler and staple their homework. And he would give negative points on assignments. You could say "I don't know how to do X" for a step in a proof (0 pts), but if you put in something wrong, you would get negative points on that part. He was a good…

I have a medical condition (autoimmune hypothyroid, extreme edition) which I wasn't aware of, but was suffering from severely, during my University years. Waking up was extremely difficult for me and as a result I was often late. At the time I couldn't understand why I seemingly had a problem that nobody else did, and presumed I just lacked self control. Nope, I just needed (a lot) of medication. Your Prof Ramsey wou…

Maybe people had ADHD and having students disrupt the class once it began made it hard to stay focused. The professor was making a reasonable accommodation for them and should be celebrated.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#368

Post by 542354234235 »

albrewer wrote: post #356
boxed wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I drove in the US I came up to a turn with the yellow speed sign. I was going faster and I could feel my car strain to not go off the road. This is to this day the second scariest thing I've experienced in a car. After that I 100% followed the yellow signs.

I had a similar experience but had an opposite takeaway. I learned that my car, in dry, daylight conditions, could comfortably go 20±5 mph faster around curves than those signs suggest.

Those signs aren’t just for whether you can go around a curve comfortably. It is if you can see and/or stop safely if something happens. If there is a broken-down car in the lane, you will see it way off at 65 mph, but if you are going around a blind curve comfortably at 65 you might plow into it or skid off the road.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#369

Post by iforgotpassword »

volemo wrote: post #343
Groxx wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also allows you to have "1 hour" classes that are at 10am and 11am, and you aren't forced to leave early or arrive late. A 5m gap isn't enough for huge numbers of classes in many campuses.

How much can you actually do in 1 hour that’s 45 minutes long? All my classes were 1.5 hours long. Yet professors still regularly chose to introduce new material on days with back-to-back classes, leaving standalone classes for practice or “less important” topics.

We usually had 2 hour classes starting ct, some of them with another 10 minute break.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#370

Post by chairmansteve »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #255
RHSeeger wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all meetings have decisions to be made. Some are just discussions of a topic; generally to make sure everyone is on the same page.

> generally to make sure everyone is on the same page If everyone is on the same page then there should be a 'page' resulting from the meeting; something to look back at to represent what everyone agreed on. Those are the 'decisions' being made. The worst meetings are ones where people share ideas, nod their head in agreement, then write nothing down. Inevitably this leads to an identical meeting later down the road,…

"The worst meetings are ones where people share ideas, nod their head in agreement, then write nothing down".

In companies where presenteeism is valued, this can be a welcome break from pretending to work.

Post reply on HN