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How the U.S. became a science superpower

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Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#361

Post by timeon »

blululu wrote: post #176
ecshafer wrote: post #41

There are a couple fundamental flaws here: One is that the number one Science and Engineering powerhouse prior to WWII was Germany, not Britain. Two this totally neglects that the US received the lion's share of Scientists and Mathematicians from countries like Germany, Hungary, Poland etc with the encroachment of the Soviets and persecution of the Jewish people. While the down up approach of the US and heavy funding…

Prior to WWII the United States was the world's leading power in terms of Science, Engineering and Industry - not Germany or the British Empire. The reason that Central European scientists fled to America (and not Britain) is because the United States had the scientific, engineering and industrial base to absorb them. Consider some of the major scientific breakthroughs to come out of the US leading up to and coming o…

Someone was reading too much of Mobi Dick.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#362

Post by timeon »

blululu wrote: post #118

>> Prior to WWII the U.S was a distant second in science and engineering. By the time the war was over, U.S. science and engineering had blown past the British, and led the world for 85 years. Citation needed. The United States has been a scientific powerhouse for most of its history. On the eve of WWII the United States was the largest producer of automobiles, airplanes and railway trains on earth. It had largest te…

Depends how you measure it. I vaguely remember that Germany had most Nobel prizes before 1930s.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#363

Post by simianwords »

garfield_light wrote: post #360
simianwords wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They provide a scaled entertainment. You are forgetting the reach that this person has. Compared to a surgeon who's impact is more local, they might help a few patients in a week. Do you think a combat soldier is more important than a VP of Google?

You have the delusion that true value is the same as a fungible one dimensional number, that externalities (negative or positive) don't exist, we have perfect information and local minima aren't real. The original example is that certain economic activities are force multipliers, the guy who actually does a good job in servicing the metro in my city (we avoid 10 minutes of delay) has more impact than most local CEO d…

if you think the metro guy/girl provides more value then he/she should be paid more. tough luck because its not the market that decides his wage unfortunately.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#364

Post by anonymousDan »

hintymad wrote: post #109

> Britain remained a leader in theoretical science and defense technology, but its socialist government economic policies led to its failure to commercialize wartime innovations. And the detriment of UK's auto industry, manufacturing industry, and etc. I really don't understand how people still fancy state-controlled economy.

Sorry but this is such a shallow comment. In what way is the US government directing public funding to academic institutions not state control? It's just a different organisational framework that appears to have been more successful.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#365

Post by DrNosferatu »

DrNosferatu wrote: post #310
Gigachad wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is probably more likely to take over in science.

Not if the EU creates the conditions to attract the scientific talent wanting to leave the US.

Don’t forget: quite many innovations (most?) that supported the Covid vaccines were developed in the EU.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#366

Post by timeon »

Epa095 wrote: post #343
koakuma-chan wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read third bullet point https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/...

Yes, and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is very democratic, it says so in their name!

North Korea is good example as there is absence of any Democracy. However boasting about Democracy, while having 2-party system, is also quite interesting.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#367

Post by ekianjo »

grafmax wrote: post #174
jack_h wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 2025, with the abandonment of U.S. government support for university research, the long run of U.S. dominance in science may be over. I find it amazing that this is the conclusion when earlier in the article it was stated that "[Britain] was teetering on bankruptcy. It couldn’t afford the broad and deep investments that the U.S. made." The US debt is starting to become an existential problem. Last year the secon…

The idea that the free market will self-correct and optimize outcomes is a well-documented fantasy. Markets don’t account for externalities, they concentrate wealth (and therefore political power), and they routinely underprovide merit goods like education, healthcare, and basic research (things that benefit society broadly but aren’t immediately profitable). As for how to address budget issues, the solution is simpl…

> As for how to address budget issues, the solution is simple: tax the rich.

The debt is so huge it does not even account for a fraction of it. People need to stop dreaming about easy solutions that fit on a piece of paper.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#368

Post by _t9ow »

philwelch wrote: post #331
HeyImAlex wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consensus is that the evidence supporting that is not strong.

It’s not conclusive, but it’s strong enough that President Biden (or rather, someone with control of President Biden’s autopen) issued Dr. Fauci a blanket pardon backdated to 2014.

> President Biden (or rather, someone with control of President Biden’s autopen) issued Dr. Fauci a blanket pardon backdated to 2014.

This merely proved that President Biden believed that President Trump will prosecute and imprison Dr Fauci if given the opportunity.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#369

Post by JetSetWilly »

blululu wrote: post #176
ecshafer wrote: post #41

There are a couple fundamental flaws here: One is that the number one Science and Engineering powerhouse prior to WWII was Germany, not Britain. Two this totally neglects that the US received the lion's share of Scientists and Mathematicians from countries like Germany, Hungary, Poland etc with the encroachment of the Soviets and persecution of the Jewish people. While the down up approach of the US and heavy funding…

Prior to WWII the United States was the world's leading power in terms of Science, Engineering and Industry - not Germany or the British Empire. The reason that Central European scientists fled to America (and not Britain) is because the United States had the scientific, engineering and industrial base to absorb them. Consider some of the major scientific breakthroughs to come out of the US leading up to and coming o…

> Penicillin

Invented and developed in the UK.

> Microwave communication

Lion's share of pre-war advances and development were in various European countries.

> Synthetic Rubber

Developed by Fritz hoffman at the Bayer Laboratory in Germany, 1906

Frankly, your comment is a massive self-own.

Re: How the U.S. became a science superpower

#370

Post by joshuaissac »

consumer451 wrote: post #225
WeylandYutani wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know NYC is already minority white right?

My most controversial take, even though it is 100% true: The entire planet is minority "white." I put that in scare quotes because even as the lightest skinned person in the land, I know that "white" is a made up in/out group term. As a Slav, I was not "white" according to US immigration law as recently as the 1950s. There is technically no such thing as being white, there is only passing for white. The definition of…

> The definition of white entirety depends on the day, and who you ask. Slavs, Irish, Italians, Greeks, were not "white" until very recently.

Indeed, in some parts of Russia, white supremacists do not consider Caucasians to be white. It really does depend on who and when you ask.

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