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Moving away from US cloud services

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Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#361

Post by crossroadsguy »

McDyver wrote: post #170
pzo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

For encrypted mail, there is also tuta.com (previously Tutanota), Germany based

Tuta comes with a caveat - you cannot use it in any other mail client (I think there are similar limitations with Proton as well).

Anyone looking for alternatives - stay away from mailboxo.org. It's a pathetic service. Stuck in past (they have a suite that makes you kick a table leg), very disgustingly bad customer service (it's almost non existent), and yeah they use 2FA inside the password.

Tuta is many times better if you can live with not being able to use another client. (They have pretty decent apps on all platforms though)

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#362

Post by crossroadsguy »

jb1991 wrote: post #251
McDyver wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For encrypted mail, there is also tuta.com (previously Tutanota), Germany based

Do you know anything about another popular German mail provider, mailbox.org?

I have commented just above it. tl;dr - I'd avoid it like plague at this point.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#363

Post by crossroadsguy »

attendant3446 wrote: post #323
jb1991 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know anything about another popular German mail provider, mailbox.org?

mailbox.org were good, but they decided to become more than just a mail provider and forced users into other, more expensive plans, adding office and cloud storage. There is also posteo.de. It doesn't support custom domains, but I use it in combination with simplelogin.io (I think French, but now owned by Proton).

Yeah, I appreciate posteo's stance but when I tried using my domain via forwarding service it was a pain.

SimpleLogin, by the way, is now owned by Proton which is run by a founder (CEO?) who is a vocal Trump supporter. Nothing wrong with that of course, just saying.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#364

Post by crossroadsguy »

pzo wrote: post #106
frereubu wrote: post #58

> Wrapping up - Migrating away from US cloud services was easier than I expected. This is absolutely not the main takeaway and I find it difficult to see how he could write this - there are gaping holes. Git repos (it's too difficult). NPM (ditto). Startpage uses Google's index. The only meaningful switch he mentions is Proton, but as other comments have pointed out they have vendor lock-in problems. The real takeawa…

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

More for email from EU: there is runbox (Norway; I have used it, really good except that their new suite has been in beta for over a century), mailo.com (france; on new pages I had to explicitly set translation from top right corner), inbox.eu (Latvia; haven't tried it). There are more: soverin, infomaniak has mail service, sartmail (used it; was costly for my personal usage iirc), and migadu (kinda well known), mailfence (liked it) etc.

Of course there is - Tuta (no imap/pop3 client support) and Posteo (no custom domain) - which are both excellent if you can live with these limitations.

The ones I would not consider (personally): mailbox (germany; but they are really. bad now - I have commented below about it), proton (I'd avoid it; reason was on hn recently).

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#365

Post by crossroadsguy »

CER10TY wrote: post #110
noirscape wrote: post #45

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

What's a good alternative to Proton? Still haven't migrated my business away from Google Workspace, and I was thinking Proton would be a good alternative, but apparently not if they don't even support IMAP/SMTP.

Not mailbox.org (!) unlike many have suggested. In last few years mailbox has gone into the gutters in almost every aspect (almost) - I am stuck there because of a large recharge/purchase I had done and they don't do prorated refunds anymore.

There are other options - tuta, posteo, runbox etc (I have just made a longer comment and I am sure you can find more on the net).

IMHO - we should not ignore other things when looking for a service replacement I mean aspects of a service other than privacy and for me responsiveness and customer service comes near the top or at the top.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#366

Post by crossroadsguy »

chgs wrote: post #149
CER10TY wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a good alternative to Proton? Still haven't migrated my business away from Google Workspace, and I was thinking Proton would be a good alternative, but apparently not if they don't even support IMAP/SMTP.

I use Zoho for my personal email. They aren’t European but they aren’t American. Crucially though it’s easy enough to migrate to another provider of self just by updating my mx records.

Note - Zoho is from the country I live in. You ought to expect nought privacy from here, or maybe even negative (yeah, that can be a thing :D).

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#368

Post by csomar »

CER10TY wrote: post #110
noirscape wrote: post #45

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

What's a good alternative to Proton? Still haven't migrated my business away from Google Workspace, and I was thinking Proton would be a good alternative, but apparently not if they don't even support IMAP/SMTP.

Fastmail should offer tenancy outside of the US, either in Australia or in the EU/Singapore.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#369

Post by csomar »

pmlnr wrote: post #165

Interesting how for a (junior) dinosaur, like me, this was never a problem: I still run my mail, web, nextcloud, xmpp, forgejo, etc server on a former thin client under a cupboard. With a symmetrical fiber 1G connection it's been surprisingly reliable. FAQ: Yes, you can run self hosted mail. Yes, it's complex. No, it's not hard, but it takes time, as it is complex - if you want to understand it. If not, go for someth…

If you have a fixed IP with a good reputation then 95% of your email problems are solved. If you use a client (like the iphone email client), your setup is really simple (as in set it up once and forget about it). Providers will also try re-sending email if it doesn't reach you, so availability is not that big of a deal.

That being said, the major issue starting up is having that highly reputable ip/domain.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#370

Post by 9dev »

rambambram wrote: post #248
9dev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cloud, speaking for small-to-medium companies, is two things; a directory server with file storage, email, and an attached suite of productivity tools (e.g. Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace), and virtual, distributed infrastructure (e.g. AWS, Google Cloud, or Azure). You can build the offerings commonly sold as "cloud" yourself, but it requires a ludicrously unreasonable amount of engineering work to reinvent th…

I did not necessarily need an explanation of what 'the cloud' is or isn't. I came to believe it's definition is vague on purpose. I found out it's (almost) the same old internet with new shiny marketing labels on it (I say 'almost' because clubs like Netflix probably need their movies stored near the end user for seamless HD streaming). With the end goal of getting everyone's data on someone else's server (so they ca…

> I did not necessarily need an explanation of what 'the cloud' is or isn't.

You obtuse "whatever that is" sure made it sound like you did.

> Luckily, I don't need a cloud. […] A computer, an internet connection and some webhosting get's you more than far enough for most use cases. Without vendor lock-in.

That is the kind of stuff you can only say if you're not concerned about anyone but yourself.

I have employees that need to send emails, do calls with customers, work on digital documents, and collaborate efficiently. If they drop their laptop, or it gets stolen, I don't want these documents to get lost, or compromised. I need them to sign in to a myriad of services securely, using a single identity that I can centrally block if their account is compromised or the contract terminated.

All of that isn't what some "marketing boy" wants me to believe, but hard requirements to do business, and protect the privacy of our employees and our customers.

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