Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not much to figure out. It's 2x M4 Max, so you need 100 of these to match the TOPS of even a single consumer card like the RTX 5090.
Sure, but if you have models like DeepSeek - 400GB - that won't fit on a consumer card.
Apple M3 Ultra
361–370 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your wording makes it sound like it was a one-man show. Asahi has a really strong contributor base, new leadership[1], and the backing of Fedora via the Asahi Fedora Remix. While Hector resigning is a loss, I don't think it's a death knell for the project. [1]: https://asahilinux.org/2025/02/passing-the-torch/
it was pretty close to a one man show
My understanding is there are dozens of people working on it.
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Apple supported Linux (headless) natively, and we could rack m4 pros, I absolutely would use them in our Colo. The CPUs have zero competition in terms of speed, memory bandwidth. Still blown away no other company has been able to produce Arm server chips that can compete.
Asahi is a thing. For headless usage it’s pretty much ready to go already.
Apple’s whole m.o. is to take FOSS software, repackage it and sell it. They don’t want people using it directly.
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
The M4 Pro is 56% faster in ST performance against AMD’s new Strix Halo while being 3.6x more efficient. Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-AI-Max-395-Analysis-... Cinebench 2024 results.
That’s a laptop part, so it makes different tradeoffs. Somewhere on the internet there is a tdp wattage vs performance x-y plot. There’s a pareto optimal region where all the apple and amd parts live. Apple owns low tdp, AMD owns high tdp. They duke it out in the middle. Intel is nowhere close to the line. I’d guess someone has made one that includes datacenter ARM, but I’ve never seen it.
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
The M4 Pro is 56% faster in ST performance against AMD’s new Strix Halo while being 3.6x more efficient. Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-AI-Max-395-Analysis-... Cinebench 2024 results.
That’s a laptop part, so it makes different tradeoffs. Somewhere on the internet there is a tdp wattage vs performance x-y plot. There’s a pareto optimal region where all the apple and amd parts live. Apple owns low tdp, AMD owns high tdp. They duke it out in the middle. Intel is nowhere close to the line. I’d guess someone has made one that includes datacenter ARM, but I’ve never seen it.
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#366Lots of AI HW is focused on RAM (512GB!). I have a cost-sensitive application that needs speed (300+ TOPS), but only 1GB of RAM. Are there any HW companies focused on that space?
Just buy any gaming card? Even something like the Jetson AGX Orin boasts 275 TOPS (but they add in all kind of different subsystems to reach that number).
Can you elaborate on how the TOPS value is inflated? What GPU would be the equivalent of the Jetson AGX Orin?
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I'm not. I'm comparing the TOPS of the M3 Ultra and the tensor cores of the RTX 5090. If not, what is the TOPS of the GPU, and why isn't apple talking about it if there is more performance hidden somewhere? Apple states 18 TOPS for the M3 Max. And why do you think Apple added the neural engine, if not to accelerate compute? The power draw is quite a bit higher, but it's still much more efficient as the performanc…
The ANE and tensor cores are not comparable though. One is literally meant for low cost inference while the others are meant for acceleration of training. If you squint, yeah they look the same, but so does the microcontroller on the GPU and a full blown CPU. They’re fundamentally different purposes, architectures and scale of use. The ANE can’t even really be used directly. Apple heavily restricts the use via CoreML…
They're both built to do the most common computation in AI (both training and inference), which is multiply and accumulate of matrices - A * B + C. The ANE is far more limited because they decided to spend a lot less silicon space on it, focusing on low-power inference of quantized models. It is fantastically useful for a lot of on-device things like a lot of the photo features (e.g. subject detection, text extraction, etc).
And yes, you need to use CoreML to access it because it's so limited. In the future Apple will absolutely, with 100% certainty, make an ANE that is as flexible and powerful as tensor cores, and they force you through CoreML because it will automatically switch to using it (where now you submit a job to CoreML and for many it will opt to use the CPU/GPU instead, or a combination thereof. It's an elegant, forward thinking implementation). Their AI performance and credibility will greatly improve when they do.
>you really need to compare against the GPU
From a raw performance perspective, the ANE is capable of more matrix multiply/accumulates than the GPU is on Apple Silicon, it's just limited to types and contexts that make it unsuitable for training, or even for many inference tasks.
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#368Whoa. M3 instead of M4. I wonder if this was basically binning, but I thought that I had read somewhere that the interposer that enabled this for the M1 chips where not available. That Said, 512GB of unified ram with access to the NPU is absolutely a game changer. My guess is that Apple developed this chip for their internal AI efforts, and are now at the point where they are releasing it publicly for others to use.…
Other than the NPU, it’s not really a game changer; here’s a 512GB AMD deepseek build for $2000: https://digitalspaceport.com/how-to-run-deepseek-r1-671b-ful...
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been buying and using MBP for 6 or 7 years now, and just assumed I could run Linux on one if I wanted to. I just spent a couple of days trying to get a 2018 MBP working with Linux and found out [edit to clarify] that my other ARM MBP basically won't work. I just want a break from MacOS, I'll be buying a Thinkpad and will probably never come back. This isn't my moaning, I understand it's their market, but if thei…
I think the only laptops you won't find weird issues with linux are from smaller manufacturers dedicated to shipping them like the kde laptop or system76. Every other hardware manufacturer, including those that ship laptops with linux preinstalled, probably have weird hardware incompatibilities because they don't fully customize their SKUs with linux support in mind. Not that I'm discouraging you from switching or an…
Re: Apple M3 Ultra
#370Really? M4 Max or M3 Ultra instead of M4 Ultra?
With an M3 Ultra going into the Mac Studio, Apple could differentiate from the Mac Pro, which could then get the M4 Ultra. Right now, the Mac Studio and Mac Pro oddly both have the M2 Ultra and same overall performance.
https://x.com/markgurman/status/1896972586069942738