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Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#361

Post by handoflixue »

foxylad wrote: post #242
chmod775 wrote: post #170

Title is a complete lie/misleading. They get a license, not ownership. Let's dissect what it actually says, and we do it backwards, because given the discussion around this subject it seems like people space out or have their mind clouded by outrage before they get to the end of the sentence: > help you [do things] as you indicate with your use of Firefox. So this already only covers things that you indicate you want…

Look at what they are ACTUALLY doing: https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b... The change removing "Does Firefox sell your personal data? Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise." makes it pretty clear that the intention in the changes is NOT just covering their bums for using y…

Full context, from the link YOU provided: ""Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you (in the way that most people think about “selling data“), and we don’t buy data about you. Since we strive for transparency, and the LEGAL definition of “sale of data“ is extremely broad in some places, we’ve had to step back from making the definitive statements you know and love."

There is no reasonable way to read this as an attempt to sell your data. This quote is also reiterated in the linked Privacy FAQ on their official site: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/faq/

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#362

Post by handoflixue »

Gud wrote: post #300
chmod775 wrote: post #170

Title is a complete lie/misleading. They get a license, not ownership. Let's dissect what it actually says, and we do it backwards, because given the discussion around this subject it seems like people space out or have their mind clouded by outrage before they get to the end of the sentence: > help you [do things] as you indicate with your use of Firefox. So this already only covers things that you indicate you want…

And how do I deny Mozilla this request to grant them a license “to help me”? Firefox is dead. What do I use now?

From the link that was already provided:

"(BTW there are opt-outs linked from each chapter/category of data, like sponsored content in new tab experience etc. that should lead you through settings to disable such telemetry. Nothing has changed about that, and you can always find it in the privacy center. The changeset you're looking at here is just to remove things that are unfortunately not that simple, and need explaining in the full legal documents instead.)"

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#363

Post by pixxel »

the-grump wrote: post #329
cookiengineer wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try going to gitlab.com with librewolf, you'll see a white page with no content. Librewolf is blocked off from half the internet that uses cloudflare, so it's kind of a useless browser. Every browser that's not a majority browser will be associated with these kind of blocking risk. I can't risk access to my financially important accounts, nobody can. So to me this is not a feasible alternative. The only way to build…

This is purely FUD per my experience. I use librewolf on websites behind cloudflare and with plenty of js. They all work just as well as they did in Firefox. Librewolf sends Firefox in the user agent, and you can toggle Firefox "features" on if a website you use requires them. Not trying to convince you to switch to it--you do you. Just sharing with someone who might be reading this thread and that hasn't tried libre…

[dead]

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#364

Post by handoflixue »

inetknght wrote: post #295
chmod775 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short answer: No. Long answer: Unless the button says "phone home my information to Mozilla", this license wouldn't cover that. This license only covers whatever is necessary to make the button itself work - whatever is necessary to realize the user's intent.

They didn't need a license to your data before. Why should they need it now?

From the link that was already provided, and which is repeated in their Privacy FAQ: "Since we strive for transparency, and the LEGAL definition of “sale of data“ is extremely broad in some places, we’ve had to step back from making the definitive statements you know and love."

That seems like a pretty reasonable justification to me

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#365

Post by whitehexagon »

pilaf wrote: post #232

This made me look into Firefox forks/alternatives: Librewolf [1] seems to be fairly active (last commit on Codeberg was last week) and up-to-date with the latest upstream releases (mirrors FF's versioning scheme and matches their latest). Has a nice focus on privacy and no-telemetry. Floorp [2] also looks active (last commit last week), also claims focus on privacy. Based off FF's extended support releases so it may…

thanks for the research. I just quickly tried them all. I have an older mac with older FF. Results: librewolf and waterfox wont run (10.15 min) and the floorp (react) website crashes. IceCat runs! and seems to use LibreJS for javascript, so my first few tests failed because you have to individually allow scripts per site. I quite like that idea! although my quick test of breakout (HN yesterday) runs slow/stuttery. A couple other sites are throwing up js console errors, so I need to play around with it more. It did enable me to access the floorp website, but also 10.15 min. I guess this helps me migrate faster to my asahi setup, although I've been trying to keep that one away from daily browsing and the little web of horrors.

I wonder if this FF change is pre AI infection, which might end up affecting these other builds too. Pretty disappointing after such strong privacy promises for so long, whatever the reason for these changes.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#366

Post by _mitterpach »

Link directly to the Github commit: https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b..., which links to the following issue: https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/issues/16016

There are a bunch of locked Google docs linked in the issue, probably internal privacy guidelines.

I can't say that this surprises me, perhaps they are looking for alternate revenue streams in case Google cuts them out?

To HN: Will you be quitting firefox over this change, or is there simply no better place to leave for?

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#368

Post by itake »

yupyupyups wrote: post #341
LeChuck wrote: post #330

It's fascinating how any Firefox thread here inevitably devolves into accusations that Mozilla has abandoned users and a push to switch to alternatives, despite Mozilla working in the interest of users to a infinitely greater degree than any other major browser vendor.

Actions speak louder than words. Firefox (including derivatives) is by far the most fingerprint resistant and adblock friendly webbrowser there is. In terms of features, it's very rich and always improving. Mozilla also maintains arguably the best web development resource there is, which is MDN. Mozilla's internal problems aside, some people really don't appreciate how successful Firefox, Thunderbird and MDN have bee…

> Firefox (including derivatives) is by far the most fingerprint resistant

Do you have a source? The fingerprint detectors [0] as well as reddit's banned/duplicate account system suggests otherwise.

Maybe at one point Firefox stopped the fingerprinting, but the tools have quickly found other ways to uniquely identify me.

[0] - https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/kcarter?aat=1 https://firstpartysimulator.org/kcarter?&aat=1&a=11&t=11&dnt...

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