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Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

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Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great take regarding 1 and 2. Regarding 3 it seems clear to me that he was not an insider, but he was scammed into spending his political capital and reputation. As a whole, it's classic cargo cult situation,imitating what a more powerful country is doing without understanding the nuances.

> Great take regarding 1 and 2. lmao, where is the great take? Regardless of whether this was marketed as as memecoin or a "financial instrument to help finance small Argentinan enterprises" they are fundamentally the same thing - a fucking scam. This is equivocal to the amount of effort you would put in to polishing a turd - it doesn't matter as the end result is exactly the same. What makes it worse is that you'd e…

>Regardless of whether this was marketed as as memecoin or a "financial instrument to help finance small Argentinan enterprises" they are fundamentally the same thing - a fucking scam.

You lack the gift of nuance, your axiom is crypto=bad, so you are not seeing any difference between what the coin was technically and how it was sold, and that very difference is the basis of fraud.

A "financial instrument to help finance small Argentinan enterprises" would be a completely legitimate enterprise, it implies that whatever money is deposit will go towards that purpose.

I heard the trump thing and it's hearsay for now. They are two different cases, Trump didn't suggest it was an actual investment vehicle, also he did it out of office.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people play at casinos all the time. There's always people that are ok with gambling and losing on the long run. But there's people that recognize the zero sum, and bet that they are the ones having the advantage. It's not like people bought the coin thinking they were helping the country, only conmen trying to outcon the conner bought it. Although there definitely is an argument for tricking laypeople, I think i…

Cigarettes also exist and people smoke and get cancer from smoking all the time. Does this mean cigarettes are a good thing? Why do they exist in society if they so clearly harm people? There's a big industry around smoking that has managed to perpetuate itself in society despite the fact that it causes harm. This doesn't mean there's a good reason reason for it to exist; the reality of the situation is that you can…

I concede that just because something is consensual doesn't mean that it is ethical or legal.

However there is and should be a legal difference between selling tobacco to unknowing customers, like in unlabeled soda or ice creams, against selling to cigarette buyers who are informed.

Similarly security laws are in place to protect legitimate investments, the courts do not want to be involved in inproductive speculative trades. You need to have some nuance between speculative casino games and genuine trading.

You can't treat both cases the same, if you do you do it at the expense of genuine commerce.

In this case, it crossed over to the criminal kind because it passed as an investment security, and was sold as such. So I do backtract in what I said in my original comment, I do see how THIS is a crime, but not other stuff like say, other typical pump.fun coins. Mostly because I learned a bit more about the case.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that cannot be further from the truth sadly. Okay, so please cite a few more examples of how his economic policies are so terrible in so many ways, particularly compared to the literal decades of economic mismanagement under most of the country's previous governments, and their largess for the sake of garnering supporters. >If he made such a blunder in finance which supposedly is one of his specialties just imag…

Uh, let's not do that? You can criticize his policies just fine without talking about what preceded him.

Really? A politician shouldn't be criticized or applauded within the context of the long-running political system that preceded him and just maybe, you know, possibly might have had something to do with his being elected, the choices he makes, and their social effects?

Don't be ridiculous. Decades of abysmal government in Argentina is damn important in any conversation about its current administration.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share some link proving that Universidad de Belgrano is a third rate university? I believe it has a good reputation in the country

We don’t really look at publishing metrics here to define what makes a good university; that is mostly determined here by the difficulty and completeness of the programs. The University of Buenos Aires and a few other national public universities are considered by all to be the most prestigious, along with the private universities of Instituto Di Tella and the ITBA. Lesser national universities rank second along with…

The University of Buenos Aires is excellent. Is ranked, by the same rank you dismissed in another message, as the 71th place, the number 1 in whole Latin America. You cannot dismiss every University below 71th place as "ridiculously low bar". This is like saying "UBA is shit, because MIT is better".

I know your type: you throw bold assertions left and right, without a single source to back up. When somebody ask for sources you reply "trust me bro". You back up your assertions with "I never met anyone from Belgrano" (I never met anyone from MIT or Harvard, yet I thing they are good Universities) or "there are no famous people from Belgrano"... well, turns out that Milei is very famous and from Belgrano, so your argument falls apart.

But the whole point (Miley is bad because his University is bad) is invalid. You can study at MIT and be mediocre. You can study at a mediocre University and be top notch. Heck, you can even almost fail at high school and be excellent at your work. Dan Luu, University of Wisconsin after nearly failing high school come to mind, or John Carmack (two semesters at University of Misouri before dropping out, after a sentence of one year in a juvenil home). Guess they are bad at their job, according to your standards. Talk about elitism...

You ask from us a full "believe me because I say so, ignore whatever data you might find that contradicts me, I won't explain why nor point you to alternative sources. Just everything that doesn't agree with me is tainted, manipulated, or wrong. And if you don't have a degree in one of the best 100th Universities in the world and I can't find your research, you are unworthy". Nah, I'm not debating in those terms.

PS. Just noticed this:

> [...]considered by all to be the most prestigious, along with the private universities of Instituto Di Tella and the ITBA[...]

Did you know that Milei got his second Master at Instituto Di Tella? Guess he is elite now, by your own standards!

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet, he just did the most impressive turn on a economy on the run towards a hyperinflation ever seen. This is said by no one except Milei. No serious economist has claimed that we were going towards a hyperinflation. I have lived through hyperinflationary periods and that was not it. It is _trivial_ to disable inflation if you’re willing to wreck an economy. I’m sorry I have no intention to reply to this becaus…

Research Gate lists several publications and two citations: https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Javier...

And https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/autor?codigo=3854649 , where H=1 (not 0 like your parent says)

He's not a great researcher, because he was not a researcher! He was more of a consultant, and published from time to time until around 2016, when he switched to another type of job.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argentina's economy has been a shit show for a while. And of course outright killing the economy and everybody's standard of living in the process means you're doing something , but it's not what I'd consider helping the economy.

Of course, the first order effect of less spending is not usually good, particulary for those receiving the money. However, Argentina has runaway second order effects like inflation that must be dealt with, and we know that the only real way to deal with that is to depress the money supply. They will have to deal with the pain in order to repair the rest of the economy; it'll suck initially, but it'll improve outcome…

> it'll suck initially, but it'll improve outcomes everywhere else, and that should outweigh the effects of reduced government spending before too long.

There's no rational beyond blind faith here. Inflation will eventually stop, most likely, but thinking that “because of the sacrifice, things will go better in the end” is just magical thinking.

The economy doesn't give a shit about morality, and Germans are paying the price of this belief at this very moment: they put their moral take about debt (“Schuld”, which also means “guilt”) in their Constitution in 2009 and now they are stuck in a recession with no end in sight because the government cannot support their economy, and they also bullied the whole Europe into reducing their debt during the 2010s, which lead to catatonic growth level in the EU for a decade.

When economics policies are decided on a moral basis with religious-inspired arguments it leads to disaster (and it's true no matter what moral values are driving it: Mao starved his population for the exact same reason, even though the moral values that inspired his policies weren't the same).

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And both equally apply to cryptocurrencies.

And now I have to clean coffee out of my keyboard. Thanks.

It's literally true, though. Cryptocurrency itself doesn't suddenly render contracts unenforceable or the ability to use courts etc to resolve conflicts. What hinders it is anonymity of the other party, but that's something that cryptocurrency merely enables; whether to engage with anonymous parties or not is still a choice. It does not preclude you from, say, suing Coinbase if they owe you some BTC.

And, conversely, if you try to pay with cash to some shady people in a parking lot, there's not much good you're going to get out of courts if they defraud you.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#368
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but when demand for the currency leads to a prices increasing,such as from an attempted corner, then you do not destroy price stability because the person operating the corner is buying the cash with something. The money-printing used to break a corner can in principle be small and you can even have an inflation target of zero and still print money to break such corners. What I want to emphasize with this though…

What you are saying, if I understood you correctly, is that money is a method of accounting. If all money is borrowed, then money is literally worth 0, which what a unit in an accounting system is worth. If this makes sense to you, then it'll make sense why Bitcoin is worth something. There is a circular demand to it even without debt. I'll not argue to the legitimacy of that demands (scams, phishing, laundering, etc…

No, absolutely not. Money has value because of the loans. It is not without value because of the loans.

Because there are denominated loans in dollars people who have those loans have to get dollars to avoid losing their houses etc., and therefore dollars have value.

Because there's very little in loans denominated in Bitcoin, bitcoin has no value.

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and just keep cash in a savings account in the short term. Ah, but remember the tariffs stuff; you could be looking at _pretty dramatic inflation_ depending on how that works out (personally I suspect he will be ultimately unable to do that much for long; there is likely a level of market disruption at which he will be Liz Trussed, but who knows). All is risk. > I wonder if I should look into seeing if I can buy bo…

Liz Trussed : f*cking up the economy so badly and so quickly your own party ousts you. I love it!

I think she's possibly the _clearest_ example of this in recent years; there've been others (realistically, "screwed up, or is perceived to have screwed up, the economy" is one of the more common reasons for national leaders to get their marching orders), but the sequence of "deranged budget proposal, catastrophic market crash, no more Liz" was just perfect. She didn't even, in the end, really _do_ anything; even the suggestion that she might do the things that she wanted to do was enough to cause a crisis.

(With Trump, the dynamic is a bit different, at least for now; he claims to want to do all sorts of absolutely bonkers things, and the markets are generally going "well, yeah, but you're not really going to, are you?")

Re: Javier Milei backtracks on $4.4B memecoin after 'insiders' pocket $87M

#370
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously it's just a memecoin, but that's what Milei's tweet said, he never mentioned "meme" in his tweet unlike Trump.

> Obviously it's just a memecoin, but that's what Milei's tweet said, he never mentioned "meme" in his tweet unlike Trump. Who gives a shit? Let's stop pretending that utilising the word 'meme' in any sort of associative context is some airtight legal defense against this being a lowest common denominator scam. These are both absolutely illegal and disgusting acts that aim to rob people of their money, using the word…

> Who gives a shit?

Nobody really should. This is just to make the scam more obvious to Milei's shrinking supporters.

Milei and his closest circle are now stuck in a loop, trying to argue simultaneously that "$LIBRA and cryptocurrencies are just a gamble, a casino for very technical people", "this only affected a minority of crypto gamblers", and that "he wanted to spread the word about a project that could be good for Argentina".

Anyone with a gram of brain matter can tell these assertions are incompatible.

And yes, one of the co-creators of $LIBRA candidly said the way these things work, only insiders make money, and the rest loses. He claims he's upset by "insider trading" being considered a naughty thing, when it's "the way these things work".

Before anyone asks: I've watched all the interviews, with Milei, his economy minister Caputo, and this Davis guy. Not hearsay, they are literally saying all these things now.

It'll be hard to argue Milei is such a savvy guy now (he often makes a show of calling his opponents "econochantas" -- slang for "econo-fraudsters"). And now he's proven himself to be either a bumbling fool, a scammer, or both. A losing proposition for anyone trying to defend his actions.

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