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Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

marcan.st

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Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#361

Post by selectnull »

LocutusOfBorges wrote: post #350
selectnull wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an early donator to marcan and never expected any delivery from Asahi project, just thought that the idea of having Linux of Apple Silicon was awesome and worthy of my support. But then marcan told his supportes to fuck off unless they commit to supporting his political ideas, which I was not willing to do. I guess this comment will be seen as abuse from the HN crowd. Oh well...

> But then marcan told his supportes to fuck off unless they commit to supporting his political ideas, which I was not willing to do. Is this about Marcan’s outspoken support for transgender people? If so, why not simply say that in your comment, rather than framing it in such vague terms?

Because I think it's not important in the context of this discussion. Whatever their views are, I am not willing to be forced to think about them.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#362

Post by rekoil »

diggan wrote: post #313
rekoil wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a moot point because the agreement right now is that Rust code is allowed to break, so the C developer in question can just ignore Rust, and a Rust person will take care of it for them.

> Which is a moot point because the agreement right now is that Rust code is allowed to break, so the C developer in question can just ignore Rust So then the argument that even semantics encoded in the Rust types, can be out of the date compared to the actual code, is actually a real thing? I read that somewhere else here in the comments, but didn't understand how the types could ever be out-of-date, but this would…

As I understand it everything Rust is seen as "optional", so a CONFIG_RUST=n build that succeeds means a-OK, then some Rust person will do a CONFIG_RUST=y build, see it's broken, fix it, and submit a patch.

I may be wrong, but that's how I understood it, but who knows how Linus will handle any given situation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#363

Post by ecshafer »

unclad5968 wrote: post #337
rdtsc wrote: post #209

A person can be in a tough spot personally and then things seem to spiral out of control around them because that just cannot be 100% isolated from professional stuff or other spheres of life. It seems like this might have happened to Hector based on the post. We've all been there and that part is completely understandable. > I get that some people might not have liked my Mastodon posts. Yes, I can be abrasive someti…

> People will look on Rust community after this and say "Remember that time when _they_ where threatening kernel devs with social media drama?". It's not right but that's the perception that will last. Happened with actix, happened with serde, and now being threatened by kernel contributors. The perception seems at least somewhat based in reality.

Rust, which is a language I really enjoy, generates more social media outrage and religious wars than any other technical project I have been following for the past 20 years.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#364

Post by kmeisthax »

cornstalks wrote: post #229
nindalf wrote: post #93

Marcan links to an email by Ted Tso'o ( https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250208204416.GL1130956@mit.ed... ) that is interesting to read. Although it starts on a polarising note ("thin blue line"), it does a good job of explaining the difficulties that Linux maintainers face and why they make the choices they do. It makes sense to be extremely adversarial about accepting code because they're on the hook for maintaining…

> Rust has a stability guarantee since 1.0 in 2015. Any backwards incompatibilities are explicitly opt-in through the edition system, or fixing a compiler bug. Unfortunately OP has a valid point regarding Rust's lack of commitment to backwards compatibility. Rust has a number of things that can break you that are not considered breaking changes. For example, implementing a trait (like Drop) on a type is a breaking ch…

Implementing (or removing) Drop on a type is a breaking change for that type's users, not the language as a whole. And only if you actually write a trait that depends on types directly implementing Drop[0].

Linux breaks internal compatibility far more often than people add or remove Drop implementations from types. There is no stability guarantee for anything other than user-mode ABI.

[0] AFAIK there is code that actually does this, but it's stuff like gc_arena using this in its derive macro to forbid you from putting Drop directly on garbage-collectable types.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#365

Post by yellowapple »

subjectsigma wrote: post #272
rdtsc wrote: post #209

A person can be in a tough spot personally and then things seem to spiral out of control around them because that just cannot be 100% isolated from professional stuff or other spheres of life. It seems like this might have happened to Hector based on the post. We've all been there and that part is completely understandable. > I get that some people might not have liked my Mastodon posts. Yes, I can be abrasive someti…

I started reading the article, having little background on kernel drama, and ended it thinking to myself, “Jesus, what did this poor guy do to deserve all this hate?” Then I read the thread you linked and thought, “Oh. That.” To be clear nobody deserves to be harassed or threatened, but Hector’s messages make it clear he is astoundingly good at making himself into a victim of injustice. When his messages mentioned “c…

The funny thing for me is that Rust's mascot, Ferris, is a crab (or "rustacean").

The symbol for Cancer is also a crab. The very word "cancer" itself comes from the Greek "καρκίνος" (karkínos), meaning "crab".

Rust literally is Cancer.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#366

Post by ThatGuyRaion »

tylerchilds wrote: post #69

i think at this point, the only path forward for rust and linux is a hard fork Rinux

The name is kind of ridiculous though. Sounds like a misspelling by East Asians, so nah, it'd have to be named something different.

Otherwise people are going to get accusations that it's a South Park thing.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#369

Post by [deleted] »

e40 wrote: post #157
bayindirh wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Putting my dusty Linux Distro Maintainer Hat on] First of all, I wholeheartedly applaud Marcan for carrying the project this far. They, both as individuals and as a team proper, did great things. What I can say is a rest is well deserved at this point, because he really poured his soul into this and worn himself down. On the other hand, I'll need to say something, however not in bad faith. He needs to stop fighting…

100% agree. For the last few years, I've been saying the following regularly (to friends, family and coworkers): communication is the hardest thing humans will ever do. Period. Going to the moon, launching rockets, building that amazing app... the hardest thing of all is communicating with other people to get it done. As a founder (for 40+ years and counting) I manage a lot of different type of people and communicati…

[deleted]

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#370

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

surajrmal wrote: post #298
LinXitoW wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Linus put the Rust developers in an impossible position: On the one hand he approved Rust in the kernel, but then never ever ever has the balls to enforce that decision. Then, the fanatical C developers openly sabotage and work against all the Rust developers efforts. So, the last option for the Rust developers is to take it to social media. Otherwise, the C developers get away with creating a self…

The thread didn't really have drama before marcan stirred the pot. There was a disagreement, but the individuals pushing for the merge were not attempting to escalate, only try to find a path forward in a way that might make both parties happy with the compromise. The drama and social media outrage arguably did nothing to help, and as far as I can tell, simply makes for good entertainment for onlookers who like to go…

I think this isn't the right take. the "disagreement" was a kernel maintainer saying "Rust in the Linux kernel is a mistake and I will do everything in my power to sabotage Rust adoption" (as feedback on version 8 of a patch). The fact that open undermining of Rust for Linux receives no pushback from Linus or anyone else with power in the Kernel is shocking.
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