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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#361

Post by izacus »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #139
layer8 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be enforced by fining the UK legal entities (or worse, like charging their legal representatives) if they don't comply. If the UK is serious about this, the only alternative for Apple would eventually be to completely cease operations in the UK. By the way, this is similar to why for true GDPR compliance, data centers should be operated by EU companies that aren't subsidiaries of US companies, because even i…

The most horrible part of the discussion we're making is that we're arguing that UK intelligence should be able to access only UK related data, and not that UK intelligence should not undermine privacy of people

What we're discussing here is whether a private company should obey laws of the country they operate in or not.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#362

Post by grayhatter »

free_bip wrote: post #224
em500 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before people immediately think the worst of Google or other corporate representatives, be aware that people working in these companies need to weight their words carefully. From The Verge's article on the issue: The UK has reportedly served Apple a document called a technical capability notice. It’s a criminal offense to even reveal that the government has made a demand. Similarly, if Apple did cede to the UK’s dema…

How does this work wrt false advertising laws? If I relied upon their end to end encryption and it turns out to be false advertising because there's a secret backdoor, who do I sue?

no one, you'll be in secret prison before you somehow gain standing

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#363

Post by wqaatwt »

amelius wrote: post #170
bilekas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

> I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? Basically by saying that if they don't comply, they can't do business in the UK.

So if British voters get to chose between having access to iPhones or voting for a government that wants to spy on them at whatever the cost surely the choice must be clear?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#364

Post by sneak »

There is already a global iCloud encryption backdoor.

iCloud Backup is not end to end encrypted. iCloud Photos is not end to end encrypted.

Apple can read all of your iMessages and see all of your photos.

The governments where they operate can compel them to turn over this data. They can and do. Often.

Operationally this doesn’t really change much.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#365

Post by Spivak »

jibe wrote: post #185
elashri wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived to the day that we give an example on china not doing something stupid a western democracy does about rights and freedom. Wild times to be alive. I am also surprised that they demand worldwide access and not just UK users data or all the data stored in UK jurisdiction. But this is going too far.

China has forced Apple to outsource iCloud in China to a state run company, so all data is just directly controlled by the government there. It’s an even worse situation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754

We literally tried to do this with TikTok. We can't exactly stand on a high-horse when the highest level of government in the US was totally fine with it.

Our noble "we can't have American data in the hands of our enemies," their savage "forcing American companies to turn over user data."

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#366

Post by didntcheck »

pjc50 wrote: post #38
Ekaros wrote: post #3

The government did get more than third of the votes. So this is the choice of democratically elected government and the voters and as such should be followed.

This sort of policy comes from the Home Office regardless of who gets elected. The spooks always want everything. You could probably make an ECHR argument about it, but even Germany who are most paranoid about Stasi-like behavior have some sort of rights carveout for law enforcement purposes.

Yes. Unfortunately those who thought a Labour government would be any less likely to deploy surveillance law than the Conservatives clearly do not have a very long memory. A pervasive obsession with snooping and controlling people's private affairs is one thing the two parties are quite united on

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#367

Post by sneak »

Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

> The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor.

First, these are the same thing.

Second, ADP is already off by default so approximately nobody uses it. It is irrelevant from a privacy standpoint whether or not they offer it.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#368

Post by varispeed »

negus wrote: post #174

Not surprised, considering UK's ridiculous key disclosure law (United Kingdom The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007, requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order.) that makes anyone with high-entropy random data (which is undistinguishable from the crypto-…

It seems like perfect case to make multi-container encryption as default. That is different data will be revealed using different key and there is no way of knowing how many containers there are in the blob of data and not possible to prove someone is hiding a key.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#369

Post by jachee »

mdhb wrote: post #312
madeofpalk wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems apparent to me that Apple leaked this information to US press in an attempt to get the UK to back off. Wouldn't Apple also try to subvert the attempt for US intelligence to get a backdoor? Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over?

You are out of your mind if you think files in iCloud are somehow outside the reach of US intel. It’s been publicly used in a bunch of prosecutions at this point.

Got any sources to back that up?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#370

Post by chongli »

gnfargbl wrote: post #263
chongli wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you have to do is search for it yourself. It’s not just UK citizens that are affected. They’re threatening to have US citizens extradited to the UK to face charges [1] for online speech that’s protected by the first amendment. [1] https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/uk-author...

I've been following the stories relatively closely, since I live here and have an interest in these things. I'm not aware of any arrests for "disagreeing with the extreme left", which is what I'm specifically asking about. It's important not to distort facts to fit a narrative. As you probably know, we don't have first amendment protection in the UK.

We're talking about US citizens -- who are protected by the first amendment -- who have never set foot on UK soil being threatened with extradition to the UK! This is not justifiable.
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