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OpenAI O3-Mini

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Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#361
post #50

It looks like a pretty significant increase on SWE-Bench. Although that makes me wonder if there was some formatting or gotcha that was holding the results back before. If this will work for your use case then it could be a huge discount versus o1. Worth trying again if o1-mini couldn't handle the task before. $4/million output tokens versus $60. https://platform.openai.com/docs/pricing I am Tier 5 but I don't believ…

Tier 3 here and already see it on Limits page, so maybe the wait won't be long.

Yep, I got an email about o3-mini in the API an hour ago.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#362
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lobotomise Anyone can write very fast software if you don't mind it sometimes crashing or having weird bugs. Why do people try to meme as if AI is different? It has unexpected outputs sometimes, getting it to not do that is 50% "more alignment" and 50% "hallucinate less". Just today I saw someone get the Amazon bot to roleplay furry erotica. Funny, sure, but it's still obviously a bug that a *sales bot* would do th…

If somebody wants their Amazon bot to role play as an erotic furry, that’s up to them, right? Who cares. It is working as intended if it keeps them going back to the site and buying things I guess. I don’t know why somebody would want that, seems annoying. But I also don’t expect people to explain why they do this kind of stuff.

It's still a bug. Not really working as intended — it doesn't sell anything from that.

A very funny bug, but a bug nonetheless.

And given this was shared via screenshots, it was done for a laugh.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#364

> Testers preferred o3-mini's responses to o1-mini 56% of the time I hope by this they don't mean me, when I'm asked 'which of these two responses do you prefer'. They're both 2,000 words, and I asked a question because I have something to do. I'm not reading them both ; I'm usually just selecting the one that answered first. That prompt is pointless. Perhaps as evidenced by the essentially 50% response rate: it's a…

I too have questioned the approach of showing the long side-by-side answers from two different models.

1) sometimes I wanted the short answer, and so even though the long answer is better I picked the short one.

2) sometimes both contain code that is different enough that I am inclined to go with the one that is more similar to what I already had, even if the other approach seems a bit more solid.

3) Sometimes one will have less detail but more big picture awareness and the other will have excellent detail but miss some overarching point that is valuable. Depending on my mood I sometimes choose but it is annoying to have to do so because I am not allowed to say why I made the choice.

The area of human training methodology seems to be a big part of what got Deepseek's model so strong. I read the explanation of the test results as an acknowledgement by OpenAI of some weaknesses in its human feedback paradigm.

IMO the way it should work is that the thumbs up or down should be read in context by a reasoning being and a more in-depth training case should be developed that helps future models learn whatever insight the feedback should have triggered.

Feedback that A is better or worse than B is definitely not (in my view) sufficient except in cases where a response is a total dud. Usually the responses have different strengths and weaknesses and it's pretty subjective which one is better.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#365
post #306

I used o3-mini to summarize this thread so far. Here's the result: https://gist.github.com/simonw/09e5922be0cbb85894cf05e6d75ae... For 18,936 input, 2,905 output it cost 3.3612 cents. Here's the script I used to do it: https://til.simonwillison.net/llms/claude-hacker-news-themes...

It's definitely making some errors

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So for posterity, in this subthread we found that I can use OpenAI without them training on my data, whereas I cannot with DeepSeek.

What do you mean? They both say the same thing for usage through API. You can also use DeepSeek on your own compute.

Where does DeepSeek say that about API usage? Their privacy policy says they store all data on servers in China, and their terms of use says that they can use any user data to improve their services. I can’t see anything where they say that they don’t train on API data.

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#369
post #228

Hopefully this is a big improvement from o1. o1 has been very disappointing after spending sufficient time with Claude Sonnet 3.5. It's like it actively tries to gaslight me and thinks it knows more than I do. It's too stubborn and confidently goes off in tangents, suggesting big changes to parts of the code that aren't the issue. Claude tends to be way better at putting the pieces together in its not-quite-mental-mo…

I've also noticed that with cGPT. That said I often run into a sort of opposite issue with Claude. It's very good at making me feel like a genius. Sometimes I'll suggest trying a specific strategy or trying to define a concept on my own, and Claude enthusiastically agrees and takes us down a 2-3 hour rabbit hole that ends up being quite a waste of time for me to back track out of. I'll then run a post-mortem through…

Really interesting point you make about Claude. I’ve experienced the same. What is interesting is that sometimes I’ll question it and say “would it not be better to do it this way” and all of a sudden Claude u-turns and says “yes great idea that’s actually a much better approach” which leaves me thinking; are you just stroking my ego, if it’s a better approach then why didn’t you suggest it?

However I have suggested worse approaches on purpose and sometime Claude does pick them up as less than optimal

Re: OpenAI O3-Mini

#370

O3-mini solved this prompt. DeepSeek R1 had a mental breakdown. The prompt: “Bob is facing forward. To his left is Ann, to his right is Cathy. Ann and Cathy are facing backwards. Who is on Ann’s left?”

Thanks for that example! Using 'ollama run' these models all failed: deepseek-r1:32b, mistral-small:latest, qwq:latest, and qwen2.5:14b.
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