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Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

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Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#361

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

cbeach wrote: post #320

> At Meta, we have a principle of serving everyone. This can be achieved through cognitively diverse teams, with differences in knowledge, skills, political views, backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences. At last, a corporation acknowledges it's _cognitive_ diversity that matters. Most other forms of diversity are superficial, inherent human characterstics that are already equal under law, and make no difference t…

> two young boys who are white, heterosexual and normal in every way, I found it disturbing to know they'd be discriminated against in the workplace.

At least they will always feel welcome in their own country. I had that feeling about 10 years ago and I miss it.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#362

Post by subarctic »

kenferry wrote: post #324
gorgoiler wrote: post #124

Diversity in tech hiring never felt like the right end of the funnel. It’s why I went into teaching and I’m proud to say after what seems like a ridiculously short amount of time (“they grow up so fast” etc.) the girls from my classes are now entering the work force as SWE and ML interns. Not many, but more than none. When we focus diversity efforts on high school kids then we get a turnaround at the funnel entrypoin…

Mm. It’s certainly good to work at the other end of the funnel (thank you!) but it also won’t help address pattern matching that people do in hiring. It’s an incredibly natural thing for people to hire people like themselves, or people they meet their image of what a top notch software dev looks like. It requires active effort to counteract this. One can definitely argue about the efficacy of DEI approaches, but I di…

Yes it will! That pattern matching is based on prior experience and if the entire makeup of candidates changes that'll cause people to pattern match differently. If old prejudices are taking a while to die out, it won't be long until someone smart realizes there's whole groups of qualified candidates who aren't getting the same offers as others and hires them

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#363

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

throwpoaster wrote: post #85

That this is a brave counter-cultural stance shows how far we fell.

Were you also trying to figure out which countries you could move to, and which friends and family you were willing to leave to do so? Or was that just me?

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#364

Post by morkalork »

blitzar wrote: post #293
morkalork wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely correct and I think it's what drives all the resentment about DEI programs. People aren't dumb, when they see some group only makes up 3% of the population of engineers and they see a program trying to balance senior positions, they're going to feel its unfair bs. What's really interesting is that almost every woman I've worked with professionaly isn't from North America, they're all from India, Ira…

(~2018) In India, women represent 45% of total computer science enrollment in universities, almost three times the rate in the United States, where it is 18%.

And in Iran, it's even higher (1). It is not what you would expect from either country based on the stereotypes people have in their minds.

(1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-ta...

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#365

Post by typon »

bko wrote: post #246
firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

A lot of people say DEI programs were purely performative and just for political points. But these policies did change the corporate landscape and affect hiring decisions. Of 323,092 new jobs added in 2021 by S&P 100 companies, 302,570 (94%) went to people of color This data came from workforce demographic reports submitted to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission by 88 S&P 100 companies Hispanic individua…

In my entire career working for US companies, I have yet to work with a black software engineer. Not a auxiliary role like PM, DevOps, IT but a straight SDE role. I have worked with literally hundreds of software engineers in my life.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#367

Post by throw12398 »

bko wrote: post #246
firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

A lot of people say DEI programs were purely performative and just for political points. But these policies did change the corporate landscape and affect hiring decisions. Of 323,092 new jobs added in 2021 by S&P 100 companies, 302,570 (94%) went to people of color This data came from workforce demographic reports submitted to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission by 88 S&P 100 companies Hispanic individua…

[flagged]

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#368

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #214
davidw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also got rid of some messenger themes: https://www.404media.co/meta-deletes-trans-and-nonbinary-mes... You can argue about the proper way to do DEI or not and its effectiveness, but this is all blatantly political. I mean, if someone got some enjoyment out of having those themes, what's it to anyone else?

Wow, that example is even more blatant, and just goes to show how all this free speech talk is bullshit. Exactly as you put it, "what's it to anyone else"? And if anything, I'd be all for adding more themes: You want everything in MAGA red? Cool, knock yourself out. I hope lots of people at Meta are in full-on quiet quitting mode.

Yeah it's common in politics. Free speech for me, but "cisgender" (a medical term, same as "transgender") is a slur. States' rights for slavery, but not for abortion.

"There must be an in-group who is protected by the law and not bound by it, and an out-group who is bound by the law but not protected by it."

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#369

Post by runako »

annzabelle wrote: post #303
baq wrote: post #55

Are they rolling back Chinese and Indian managers only hiring Chinese and Indian folks, too?

That's the most egregious hiring practice I've actually seen. The white/black/hispanic/asian american managers all hire teams with multiple ethnicities based on the most qualified candidates for the job, while Indian born managers frequently seem to end up with teams that are 80+% Indian. I don't think I've ever seen a team that's 80% white, even in roles that require US Citizenship, but 80% Indian happens frequently…

> I don't think I've ever seen a team that's 80% white

I assure you this is very common in the industry, at least in the US. I can even go further: that 80% white team will usually also not have any women. 80% white men on a team describes most of the teams I've worked on over the decades.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#370

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

firefoxd wrote: post #184

I wrote about my experience working as a software developer and being black in the industry and I was lucky to have it published on BBC [1]. What immediately followed, every large company reached out to have me work as a consultant for their diversity program. I found it fascinating that they had a team of DEI experts in place already. Like what makes one an expert? In addition to my job, I spent nights developing pr…

Jeez, the most I ever got was called aside by the VP of Engineering on my last day to give him my opinion of their Diversity program ("since you're leaving, I figured you could be brutally honest with me"). Loved him for that, BTW :-)

But seriously, congratulations!

The negative effect of "fake diversity" is that it leaves everyone else wondering if the minority employees actually know what they're doing or if they were hired to make the company look good.

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