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uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

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Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#361

Post by lodovic »

Xelynega wrote: post #345
Ukv wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are upset that: 1. Honey makes money through deals with retailers to not offer the best coupon code to the extension's users 2. Honey swaps out the referral code from the blog/video/etc. that actually referred you to the product with their own, even when they didn't find any coupon deal Merely "Honey makes commissions from our merchant partners" is not at all a "very upfront" description of that behavior. More…

The two together results in honey essentially being paid instead of real affiliates to suppress coupon codes from you(since they advertise to stores that they direct users away from finding coupons, and towards a more stable discount percentage).

This is hard to grasp. Do I understand correctly that some web pages may display a coupon code for a discount on some possible future sale. And the Honey extension detects this coupon code and replaces it with a different coupon with less discount? This all seems so absurd, making money by skimming hypothetical discounts.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#362

Post by tikhonj »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #325
tikhonj wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more direct solution would be a law that required distributing human-editable code alongside software. No need for copyright or anything remotely similar. Code being copyrightable would just be getting in the way at that point. But in a world where that is politically infeasible, we have to use whatever tools we have at hand to get as close as we can. And, unfortunately, the tool we happen to have is the modern c…

It's also possible such a law (in the US) would violate the first amendment (being "compelled speech").

I mean, there's a reasonable argument that large swathes of current copyright law in the US also violate the First Amendment. I haven't read it yet, but the book No Law from Stanford University Press[1] makes that argument and has been on my to-read list for a while.

[1]: https://www.sup.org/books/law/no-law

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#363

Post by kelseydh »

Google removed chrome extensions that do cookie stuffing before: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-removes-two-chrome-ad-b...

PayPal's Honey extension should be pulled by Google for doing the exact same thing. There is no difference and Honey shouldn't get special treatment just because it's owned by PayPal.

---

UPDATE: It's criminal wire fraud.

Brian Dunning sentenced to 18 months jail for cookie stuffing: https://www.businessinsider.com/brian-dunning-ebay-and-affil...

“Cookie Stuffing" internet fraud schemer Jefferson Bruce McKittrick pleads guilty: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdal/pr/cookie-stuffing-interne...

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#364

Post by sitharus »

lodovic wrote: post #361
Xelynega wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two together results in honey essentially being paid instead of real affiliates to suppress coupon codes from you(since they advertise to stores that they direct users away from finding coupons, and towards a more stable discount percentage).

This is hard to grasp. Do I understand correctly that some web pages may display a coupon code for a discount on some possible future sale. And the Honey extension detects this coupon code and replaces it with a different coupon with less discount? This all seems so absurd, making money by skimming hypothetical discounts.

From what I understand, no, they don’t replace coupons you’ve entered.

Honey’s advertising message was “never search for a coupon again” and “we’ll ensure you always have the best discount possible”. However in reality a merchant could sign up as a Honey partner and for a mere 3-5% commission they’d let you set the coupons that Honey would show.

So for example if your business gave a 20% promotional coupon to a small community, you could set Honey to ignore it and only show a 5% coupon in the coupon search. People with the 20% coupon will still get to use it, but Honey will never supply it.

So not only was Honey removing affiliate revenue from the people promoting it, it wasn’t giving the people using it the best deal that it promised.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#365

Post by miki123211 »

benjaminl wrote: post #265
tantalor wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know when Honey started stealing affiliate links? Was it after the acquisition?

[flagged]

> The only thing that I never understood was why brands would allow Honey to be an affiliate. Why would they want to pay Honey any money when Honey doesn’t originate any traffi?

Because Honey has leverage.

Just to provide one example, Honey can very easily hurt Amazon's bottom line by adding random affiliate codes (of independent creators) to every transaction. This wouldn't make them any money, but would bring them to the negotiating table.

Instead, Amazon can work out a deal with them where they get half the standard affiliate fee, and Amazon pockets the rest. Amazon is happy because they pay 1.5% to Honey instead of paying 3% to a different creator, Honey is happy because they get 1.5% instead of nothing, and Honey users are happy because if Honey is well-funded, they'll use some of that money on letting them find good deals online.

This is just one of the ways it could have played out; it's also possible that e.g. Honey had good access to some kind of Amazon discount codes that they kept applying too often, which Amazon didn't like, so they worked out a deal that wasn't too bad for Amazon and great for Honey.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#366

Post by kelseydh »

benjaminl wrote: post #265
tantalor wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know when Honey started stealing affiliate links? Was it after the acquisition?

[flagged]

At no point in that writeup does Honey say they use cookie stuffing to fraudulently steal affiliate attribution when no discount code is found. This is a serious crime: people have gone to prison for cookie stuffing affiliate codes (see: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdal/pr/cookie-stuffing-interne...)

Google removes chrome extensions cookie stuffing affiliate codes: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-removes-two-chrome-ad-b...

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#367

Post by [deleted] »

lodovic wrote: post #361
Xelynega wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two together results in honey essentially being paid instead of real affiliates to suppress coupon codes from you(since they advertise to stores that they direct users away from finding coupons, and towards a more stable discount percentage).

This is hard to grasp. Do I understand correctly that some web pages may display a coupon code for a discount on some possible future sale. And the Honey extension detects this coupon code and replaces it with a different coupon with less discount? This all seems so absurd, making money by skimming hypothetical discounts.

[deleted]

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#368

Post by kelseydh »

relwin wrote: post #281
Suppafly wrote: post #22

As if Honey isn't already under enough fire with half the youtube world releasing videos about their shady practices.

Legal Eagle is suing: https://youtu.be/4H4sScCB1cY?si=bXxfG_EekkzGEW7J

Arguably a criminal matter also, “Cookie Stuffing" Internet Fraud Schemer Pleads Guilty: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdal/pr/cookie-stuffing-interne...

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#369

Post by Alex-Programs »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #293
Alex-Programs wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as I watched the video all I could think was "what the fuck did you think they were doing?". I'm surprised technical youtube channels were caught by it, although maybe they did the calculation that the money Honey was paying was worth more than the affiliate sales they'd lose. There's also value to getting that money immediately, rather than at some unknown point in the future. The only part that seemed uncouth…

> as I watched the video all I could think was "what the fuck did you think they were doing?". Well, not screwing over their partners and customers? They didn't have to overwrite existing affiliate codes to make lots of money. And the stuff you list in your last sentence is a really big deal.

Yeah, you're right about them not having to rewrite existing ones. They could've only inserted affiliate codes when there weren't existing ones.

It's less that I think it's OK, more that I'm unsurprised.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#370

Post by dns_snek »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #325
tikhonj wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more direct solution would be a law that required distributing human-editable code alongside software. No need for copyright or anything remotely similar. Code being copyrightable would just be getting in the way at that point. But in a world where that is politically infeasible, we have to use whatever tools we have at hand to get as close as we can. And, unfortunately, the tool we happen to have is the modern c…

It's also possible such a law (in the US) would violate the first amendment (being "compelled speech").

Do food nutrition labels violate the first amendment, being compelled speech?
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