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The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

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361–370 of 493 posts

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#361

I have to wonder A) What does DRM realistically accomplish for the media companies? And, B) How are these DRM schemes actually being defeated? I do occasionally don my pirate hat* and have never had an issue finding what I want at the quality I want within an hour of a episode/movie being released to streaming. That would seem to indicate that these efforts at DRM are actually failing to have any noticeable effect at…

DRM implements the same problem Copyright does, but in a different place. To explain that, here's some backstory:

Copyright defines art as a good (instead of a service), and demands everyone play along. An artist can use their copyright to monopolize both the distribution and the derivation of their work. Effectively, this places a wall between any would-be collaborators, because collaboration is derivative. In a world without copyright, you could collaborate with the work of Disney by making derivative work. With copyright, however, Disney can demand you stop that work by monopolizing its copy. By abusing this demand, Disney can entrench itself as the only Mickey-Mouse compatible corporation.

In the software world, collaboration of work requires source code redistribution. Because of this, the social incompatibility that copyright is founded upon translates into literal software incompatibility; including proprietary software platforms and libraries. For example, Microsoft Office has entrenched itself as the "industry standard" for rich text and spreadsheets by leveraging the incompatibility of its data formats. While collaboration isn't impossible, Microsoft is granted a legally-enforced anticompetitive advantage from its copyright monopoly.

NVIDIA uses the copyright monopoly of its CUDA implementation to sell more hardware. It is able to do this because the hardware and software engineers are both part of the same vertically-integrated corporation. Because of copyright, AMD's software engineers are not allowed to collaborate with the CUDA developers, and AMD drivers cannot be made CUDA compatible.

This is where the story gets to DRM: Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google, and others are all vertically integrated hardware-media-advertising corporations. Each of them wants to abuse their respective copyright monopolies (their media businesses) to sell hardware, just like NVIDIA does with CUDA. To accomplish this, they told us the exact reverse story: Digital Rights Management.

The story of Digital Rights Management says that hardware needs to be incompatible in order to enforce the copyright monopoly. See what they did there? Now any anticompetitive advantage that we get in our hardware and advertising businesses was all just from us doing whatever it takes to support those poor starving artists!

I can hear you asking yourself, "But where is the hardware incompatibility?". That's the extra sneaky bit on top. Unlike having a clear winner and a loser like NVIDIA and AMD, hardware-media-advertising corporations are all winners. Each one of them benefits from the other using DRM. All of their moats intersect into one giant ~~swamp~~, I mean lakefront development.

Here's an example to chew on: App Stores. Both Google and Apple have their own separate incompatible app stores. Sure, it's a loss to Google when a popular app only works on iOS, but that's a two way street. The important part is that they have a moat at all: when the little guys try to make a competitive alternative, they drown. There is plenty of room for two players at this game, and the intersection of moats guarantees there will never be a third. Even when Apple's moat starts to flood Android Island, what's left standing will be worth more than a drained swamp.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#362

The author is correct in that media DRM is tied to GPU vendors on the field right now. But hardware backed DRM can be so much more invasive beyond that. I have no doubts the long term goal of MS is to have a Windows version of Play Integrity.[0] So total control over everything that happens on your device. Just to give an example of what could happen if this becomes reality: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Enviro…

This is why it's so important to have local copies of things you value. Movies, shows, games, Youtube channels, everything.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#363

i've done a lot of work with Arm TrustZone, OP-TEE, and Arm Trusted Firmware. it's really nice. in Arm, the TEE is user-supplied, not vendor-supplied, so it gives an isolated execution environment for any sensitive code you might want to put in there. hardware peripherals (tzc/spu) allow you to designate certain bus addresses or memory ranges as "secure" during the early firmware initialization, meaning Linux (or wha…

TEE is nice, but it's a pretty different use case all around, and the two are actually quite complementary:

TEE is effectively an execution environment below ring 0, together with some hardware isolation as you mention. But by itself, solutions based on it can't hold any trusted key material, so can't be used in attestation contexts.

TPMs and other types of secure enclaves or secure elements include secure storage and can come pre-loaded with external root of trust keys, which allows attestation (and by extension trusted computing use cases), but also completely local useful things like enforcing a PIN retry limit on usage of a hardware-stored SSH key.

But since TPMs are by design self-contained and don't have any input or output capabilities, mediating user access via a TEE and some minimal OS providing a user confirmation UI can be very powerful (for example so that malware can't lock you out of your own SSH keys by just entering the PIN incorrectly repeatedly).

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#364
post #275
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have trouble understanding your use of the term DRM. Media DRM makes sense: the copyright holders want to "manage" their rights digitally. How is that relevant to Play Integrity or WEI? Whose right is being protected or managed? If I have an Android without Play Integrity there are certain apps that will not run, but I don't see any rights being managed here: an app developer has the right to refuse service just li…

Ultimately, DRM is untenable without users also being locked out of their own devices. Consequently pressure to support more effective DRM will always translate into pressure to restrict what users can do with their devices. Furthermore, the only defense against this is large open device market share: once closed devices comprise most of the market, DRM proponents can announce they'll stop supporting open devices, cr…

This is an FSF level understanding. Android devices are fully open and you can reflash them to whatever OS you want. Some remote servers won't give you service if you do that, but nothing is locking you out of your device. As Android dominates the global market, you already live in that world where most devices are open.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#365

The author is correct in that media DRM is tied to GPU vendors on the field right now. But hardware backed DRM can be so much more invasive beyond that. I have no doubts the long term goal of MS is to have a Windows version of Play Integrity.[0] So total control over everything that happens on your device. Just to give an example of what could happen if this becomes reality: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Enviro…

If that ever happened I would nerd up on low level architectures. Get a job in a trusted company. Leak the keys. The only worthy cause to apply my patience to.

In most well designed systems the only keys that are useful are held in HSMs that won't export them to anyone, so you can't easily do that. You could at best sign a few things with the keys if you were able to compromise HSM credentials, but, once you were caught your access would be revoked along with anything you signed.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which cards strip modern HDCP?

Something like this produces a clean hdmi stream: ViewHD 2 Port 1x2 Powered HDMI 1... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004F9LVXC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_shar...

That page doesn't make any mention of HDCP stripping, and says it can only work up to 1080p anyway which isn't hardware protected to begin with.

Where is the evidence this device strips HDCP?

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which cards strip modern HDCP?

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003020587234.html

That device makes no mention of stripping HDCP and I can't find any evidence it does that on the maker's website. What makes you think it will strip HDCP?

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#368
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the idea that DRM is not about controlling the viewers directly, but about controlling the makers of playback devices (both hardware, as in GPUs and TVs, and purely software). The point is not in making the bits uncopyable at all, but to prevent the makers of things like Roku or Chrome from making the access too easy, like skipping ads, let alone downloading. Most viewers are not computer-savvy, even if th…

The DRM doesn’t really make pirating any more inconvenient for the (pirate) consumers (they get e.g. an MKV file without any of it). If there was no DRM on the legal platforms, it would be easier for pirates to release new stuff, but just marginally so. If there was no DRM, ordinary viewers would still choose Netflix over torrents, and perhaps some more tech-savvy users would choose it as well (since many do want to…

No, with DRM, you can't make and sell a player that allows to skip ads, ignore regional limitations, etc. If you do, your key is revoked.

Pirating high-res videos already requires special hardware to remove HDCP. It's cheap now because HDCP is notoriously weak. A future standard may start needing a $500 device, or even a $5000 one.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest and most obvious use-case is allowing you to encrypt your hard drive using a key stored in tamper-resistant hardware rather than having to rely on the user to select a passphrase complex enough to resist offline brute force attacks.

Oh, that's interesting. So in the TPM case, I could not have a password to have an encrypted volume? And if I removed that hard drive from the computer, there would be no way to recover it? But from the user's perspective, it would be transparent and they might not even know it's encrypted?

Yes, that's very common. In Windows 11 Pro (not sure about other editions) you can enable BitLocker and turn on auto unlock with no PIN. Though if someone steals the whole PC I'm not sure how effective that is. With a PIN set the TPM will enforce rate limiting to prevent brute force attacks, which should be more effective in that scenario. Most modern phones do something similar: user data is encrypted with a TPM key accessed using your lock screen code on boot-up.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#370
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capturing the digital video output is supposed to be prevented by HDCP encrypting the signal, but in practice that's pretty well broken. That is a (slowly) moving target though, each time they roll out a new HDMI version (e.g. for 4K) they get to enforce a new version of HDCP which needs to be broken all over again. I don't think the version of HDCP attached to HDMI 2.1 has been broken yet but that's kind of a moot p…

It's hilarious to imagine the meeting where they finally convinced themselves they could put worthwhile lasting encryption in consumer devices with a 10 year+ installation lifetime. What a complete and total waste of effort.

Hilarious ... if you don't understand modern DRM, yes.

Modern games console security shows you can easily build DRM that lasts 10+ years. Xbox One came out in 2013 and was never properly breached during its entire lifecycle, Xbox X/S replaced it and have also not been breached. Microsoft figured out how to make strong DRM ~15 years ago on devices they design and manufacture. There's nothing wasted about that effort given that it lets them subsidize the console costs and block cheating.

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