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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#361

Post by notahacker »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #248
notahacker wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leader of his own party reportedly called it unconstitutional and vowed to stop it, so I don't think his route to rigging a Parliamentary vote in his favour is an easy one.

> I don't think his route to rigging a Parliamentary vote in his favour is an easy one The classic move is to block the legislature from assembling while one gets around to dissolving it.

Oh, I agree that via the use of force he can do what he likes, at least so long as that force is loyal to him and other forces aren't stronger.

It's just harder to create a veneer of the constitutional necessity of such a move when your own highest profile political allies apparently condemn it and pledge to "stop it with the people" instead of queuing up to rubber stamp it and do "this is a small problem with criminal elements in one party which is all resolved now" briefings to confused foreigners wondering who the real government of South Korea is.

Edit: reportedly the National Assembly has actually managed to hold a vote against it. Not sure how or what the constitutional quirks are, but that's probably going to make it considerably less likely the military unites behind the President...

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#362

Post by kernal »

Ekaros wrote: post #98
aurareturn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. Who is that virtual enemy for the US?

Far-right, Trump, Incels, White-Males, Patriarchy... Pick your poison...

There it is. I knew Trump and white males would eventually be blamed from the radical far left.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#363

Post by hindsightbias »

wesselbindt wrote: post #127

The reason given is to root out pro-North Korean elements. How is red scare stuff still a thing?

This is country with compulsory military service, where young people patrol a very dangerous border where infiltrators operate, plant land-mines, etc. Shootings aren't uncommon.

Had a coworker whose best friend got lost on night patrol. Another unit killed him when he didn't come up with the password of the day quick enough. The coworkers comment? "He screwed up."

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#364

Post by brvsft »

happytoexplain wrote: post #238
petesergeant wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes brother, that was my point, wrt to the text I quoted

I read it the same way the parent did - can you clarify?

His point was that Westerners aren't necessarily going to be fooled, with the example of the AP (Western) viewing his declaration of martial law unsympathetically.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#365

Post by wesselbindt »

JohnBooty wrote: post #323
wesselbindt wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no pro north Korean elements in the opposition. This is using a very real foreign adversary as a boogeyman to demonize political opponents. That's exactly what "red scare stuff" was back then in the United States, and that's exactly how it's being used right now by the president of Korea.

This is kind of what I was wondering as somebody who's 99% clueless about Korean politics. Yoon Suk Yeol claimed he is protecting the country from "shameless pro-North Korean anti-state forces." Now... I do not doubt that NK has spies in SK, possibly some in government. I am sure there are some in SK who are happy to get a paycheck from NK to share some info. It's what any oppositional nation state would be trying to…

My partner is Korean and admittedly on the liberal end of the spectrum, but according to my partner he's pretty analogous to right wing neofascist scaremongerers in the west, whom you're possibly more familiar with. The "they're poisoning our blood" and "country-x for the country-x-men" types which seem to have proliferated over the past decade.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#366

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #336
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that really as true as it used to be since COVID? A number of governments enacted quite astonishingly repressive measures Zero countries in the West enacted anything resembling martial law. The only freedoms abridged were those of movement and assembly, and even then the penalty was being shut down or ticketed, rarely jail, never summary execution.

One could argue that the invocation of the Emergencies Act in Canada (in response to protests against COVID safety measures) resembles martial law. It abridged more than just freedoms of movement or assembly, including freezing personal and corporate bank accounts without due process. This is the most equivalent measure that Canada has to martial law, given that the Emergencies Act replaced the War Measures Act.

> One could argue that the invocation of the Emergencies Act in Canada (in response to protests against COVID safety measures) resembles martial law

I'd agree with this characterisation.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#367

Post by intoamplitudes »

ken47 wrote: post #158
intoamplitudes wrote: post #11

Transparent coup d'etat attempt rumored to happen for months. The only option when the mouse is cornered. Approval rating in the <10% range, Japan whispering in his ear and pulling the puppet strings, crazy selfish wife abusing state resources, it is almost comically predictable if not for how serious it is. North Korea is always the convenient excuse... only hope Westerners don't get fooled by the rhetoric. Guy digg…

> rumored to happen for months Source?

Sept 2, 2024 Defense minister nominee rebukes rumors about gov't plan to declare martial law https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381...

Sept 3, 2024 Lee’s raising of suspicions of martial law plans isn’t baseless — just look back to 2017 https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1...

Sept 4, 2024 [News analysis] Why is Korea’s Democratic Party talking about martial law? https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/1...

Sept 4, 2024 [ED] No room for martial law talk https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381...

Sept 5, 2024 DPK's martial law claim backfires due to lack of evidence https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381...

Sept 5, 2024 Martial law equals coup-d’etat: What would it mean for South Korea? https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=381...

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#368

Post by cameldrv »

qqqwerty wrote: post #335
dmix wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be some rule on the internet where if some geopolitical thing happens anywhere in the world at least one person will blame Russia.

And a similar rule that at least one person will defend Russia, regardless of how truthful the accusations are. And in this particular case, NK troops fighting in a land war in Europe at Russia's side is a major geopolitical shift, whether you agree or not.

It’s a big shift, but from a NK/SK standpoint probably the bigger issue is what exactly NK got in exchange for the massive ammunition deliveries and the tens of thousands of troops they sent to die in Ukraine.

Whatever it is, it must be pretty big, perhaps advanced missile technology, maybe even new types of nuclear weapons. Either way it’s bound to significantly change the balance of power on the Korean Peninsula.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#369

Post by NickC25 »

aurareturn wrote: post #151
aurareturn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. Who is that virtual enemy for the US?

Eight replies to my post and no one has mentioned China yet. Has China been accepted as a "real" enemy? To me, China is the main virtual enemy that politicians trout out to create fear and distraction.

Accepted? No idea.

That said, China has stated that their long-term plan is to overtake our military, economic, and technological dominance.

That's, at the very least, a clear signal that they want to beat us.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#370

Post by s1artibartfast »

jknoepfler wrote: post #273
Uvix wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying it doesn't resemble martial law, and then immediately listing freedoms that were abolished, is a contradiction. Rather than "freedom of movement and assembly", I'd argue that what we lost was "freedom of due process". Everyone was jailed, just in their own homes.

No, I and everyone else was still able to leave our homes. We were free to assemble in large numbers outside. I (and many others) exercised free assembly rights to protest the murder of George Floyd, for example (not the riots... ironically the one example of somethimg resembling martial law being imposed, albeit belatedly and with great reluctance). There was no curfew, particularly no curfew enforced by the militar…

you are right. people were free to protest and burn down police stations. It was people who wanted to walk on the beach or go surfing that had the guns pointed at them (albeit by police, not soldiers)
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