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Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

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Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#361

Post by delusional »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #358
JacobJeppesen wrote: post #162

I've seen a bit of confusion regarding this. First, it's 10% of Denmark's total land area, which is roughly equivalent to 15% of farmland area. Second, the conversion of farmland area into nature and forests is mainly for improving water quality, as excess nitrogen from agriculture has essentially killed the rivers and coastal waters through oxygen depletion from algae. Regarding global warming and CO2, the area conv…

So effectively offshoring carbon production to places that don’t care?

No. The document spells out that denmark intends to remain a "strong" producer of agricultural products by increasing the yield from other, less ecologically damaging, farming areas.

You should read the introduction.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#362

Post by lowkey »

RayVR wrote: post #227
chaostheory wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the masses interpret these changes as “let them eat cake” given that inflation is already hammering the middle and lower classes.

in Denmark, inflation is currently running at a 1.6% annualized rate, as of the most recent reading[0]. This is the full basket inflation rate, including volatile categories (food and energy). Core inflation is even lower, with the latest reading at 1.3% (annualized) in October 2024. Food inflation is, of course, volatile. It currently sits at a moderately elevated level of 3.9% (October 2024, annualized). Food price…

Economists look at inflation on a month/month or year/year basis. This is not an accident as it purposely ignores the destructive cumulative effect of inflation.

Individuals, by contrast look at the cumulative effect of inflation. If inflation runs hot for several years and then comes back to a moderate level, prices don’t go down regardless of what economists would have you believe. The effect of inflation has memory.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#363

Post by mistrial9 »

account42 wrote: post #326
manvillej wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a combined tax and subsidy to try to drive farmers into more sustainable practices in a fiscally neutral way isn't a bad idea, but I think it is just a very risky and necessary roll of the dice. I think inevitably, there will be price increases. The questions is just how bad and how many farms survive the transition.

You misunderstand, driving small farms out of businness so they can be taken over by Gates and other big farming monopolies is the real goal not an unwanted side effect.

a casual American perspective here -- it is easy to mistake the cause when an effect is obvious. Yes, coordinated market regulation ends up increasing consolidation (with capital). Not everyone thinks this is a bad thing. No, it is not a plot by a few powerful individuals (easy to imagine, convenient emotional target). Rather there are "policy levers" and economic forces that operate at once, and interact in complicated ways.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#364

Post by dukeyukey »

jdenning wrote: post #250
Ma8ee wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you point out, there are several valid reasons to subsidise farming. But then subsidise farming, not carbon emissions! And while you are at it, use those subsidies to encourage farming that is sustainable, both for the climate as well as biodiversity.

What's the point of a carbon tax if it's balanced by a government subsidy? Edit: Genuinely curious what I'm missing..

You tax the carbon (something you want less of) and you subsidise something else you want more of. So you might end up with the average farmer not having a change of costs, but still disincentivising stuff we don't want e.g. carbon emissions.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#365

Post by boomboomsubban »

busterarm wrote: post #352
dgfitz wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look it up, Denmark is allegedly a world leader in pig farming exports. You make a really interesting point that I feel like garners more discourse. https://agricultureandfood.dk/danish-agriculture/agriculture... .

Denmark is also THE world leader in pork consumption.

This doesn't seem to be true. In 2002 it appeared to be true, but the way it was calculated was by calculating the full mass of pigs produced and subtracting the amount exported. This didn't take into account that exports tended not to include heavy bones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_cons...

More recent data shows thir pork consumption as nothing noteworthy, though I have no idea how good the data is https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pork-cons...

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#366

Post by JacobJeppesen »

guappa wrote: post #336
account42 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Do people really still buy this trick?

Subsidies will be cut by a future government so it's all fine :D

They've tried to avoid this by doing the negotiations between the government and interest organizations from all sides. The most surprising part of all this is really that these organizations, which included the main agricultural lobby organizations and the main nature preservation organizations, managed to sit down together and come to an agreement. This agreement was then proposed to the parliament, which voted it through with a broad coalition from both sides. So, that should ideally make it somewhat resilient to changing governments. Of course, that's not a guarantee, but at least it should be more solid than most of these political agreements :)

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#367

Post by fuzztester »

Sort of related:

IIRC, I had read somewhere a while ago that Denmark was going to convert to fully organic farming.

So, just now, I googled for a relevant phrase and found this as one of the results:

https://ecobnb.com/blog/2017/07/denmark-organic/

This was the search I used:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Denmark+doing+fully+organic+...

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#368

Post by AdamN »

account42 wrote: post #324
JacobJeppesen wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Also, an important note here is that they were part of the negotiations, and as such were part of the agreement which was proposed to the parliament. All that being said, you're right, they're not exactly thrilled with the government adding taxes and monitoring them more.

> It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Do people really still buy this trick?

Agriculture has been subsidized for security and stability reasons for a very long time - this isn't a trick it's the status quo ex ante.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#369

Post by AdamN »

dgfitz wrote: post #206
SoftTalker wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's actually a CO2-equivalent (CO2e) tax, which includes a range of other gasses. E.g., 1kg of methane is 25kg CO2e Your pig farmers must be thrilled.

I had to look it up, Denmark is allegedly a world leader in pig farming exports. You make a really interesting point that I feel like garners more discourse. https://agricultureandfood.dk/danish-agriculture/agriculture... .

There's a great few episodes on this in Borgen where the PMs paramour goes to the hospital because there are so many hormones pumped into Danish pigs and how powerful the industry is in the country.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#370

Post by r3d0c »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #108
dataviz1000 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haiti cut down all their trees. When a hurricane passes through it moves what little top soil they have into the ocean.[1] Haiti overfished their costal waters. Now they do not have fish to eat and worse can not participate in the single biggest economic driver in the Caribbean, scuba diving. Planting trees on farms is incredibly important for maintaining and protecting the soil. The Americans learned that the hard w…

I don't see how Haiti situation applies to Denmark.

are you being obtuse?
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