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Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

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Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#361

Post by baq »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #104
TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

Well, how big were the business assets? Specifically, what percent of the business would have to be sold off? My reaction is very different for 5% versus 50%.

There’s no market for limited partnerships in mom and pop shops. The whole thing may go for a low multiple of yearly revenue, like 2 or 3x.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#362

Post by jedberg »

itake wrote: post #255
jedberg wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would incentivize them to only offer majors that lead to high incomes. By pooling the money it removes that issue.

jobs that pay well are a signal that there is high demand for this skill in our society and that more people need to develops these skills. Why would we not want universities to respond to that signal?

Because the job of a university isn't just to produce highly paid workers. It is to improve society through education. And sometimes people need to learn things that don't pay well, just for the sake of learning them.

People make fun of English and Art majors, but yet the majority of people consume art and writing as their primary activities outside of work (watching TV and movies).

The world would be a sad, boring place without those majors.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#363

Post by baq »

changoplatanero wrote: post #101
mh- wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, you're reasoning about it incorrectly. What if I said: the price is the same for everyone, but people with less access to money get proportionally more assistance paying that price?

still seems weird to me. is there any other product for 18-22 year olds where the price changes depending on their parents wealth?

It isn’t a mcburger. It’s an investment with an excepted variable return realized over like 4-5 decades. There’s almost nothing else an 18-22 can do that has comparable odds of increasing value of oneself in dollar terms and in impossible-to-measure-society terms than getting accepted into a good school.

(E.g. you hear about college dropouts starting businesses all the time. You barely ever hear that about people who haven’t attended college at all.)

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#364

Post by ttyprintk »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #245
d2049 wrote: post #33

When I was touring colleges as a high school senior I met someone who had gotten into MIT but whose family could only afford to send one kid to an elite college, him or his sister. He decided to go to a state school which was a lot less expensive but whose academics weren't close to the same level. This stuff matters to people.

> I met someone who had gotten into MIT but whose family could only afford to send one kid to an elite college, him or his sister. So they were rich enough that he didn't get exempt from tuition but still could only send one kid to an elite school? I wonder if the guy was just pulling your leg.

I wonder, too. In 1965, 3580 applied, 1532 were admitted, and only 929 enrolled. How many of that 39% had better options than MIT, knowing about the draft?

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#365

Post by herewulf »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #344

The decrease of buying power, post Covid, makes this pretty much moot at best. It’s sort of depressing to think that even if I had children, or magically qualified to attend a prestigious school like MIT, I’d still be surely priced out. Just like I am buying a house. Making $200k a year ensures I’ll never own a home unless I want to move to an area I don’t feel safe in. I imagine having children make that trade off b…

What urban hellhole do you live in where you can't buy a home in a safe neighborhood while earning $200K?!

You need to look outside your immediate area. Or at another state. Most of the USA is nothing like that.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#366

Post by janalsncm »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #262
bradchris wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that speaks to the low bar we have come to expect from our endowed institutions today more than anything else. American Universities, historically, are supposed to improve not just their students’ lives but also society as a whole, especially as serving as boosters for the city they’re in and their immediate neighbors. That’s why they’re nonprofits. That’s also likely their strongest lifeline to remain releva…

I doubt they could even if they wanted to. All problems cannot be solved by throwing money at them, and the local governments may not be cooperative or efficient enough to use the money. There are chemically engineered drugs that will gigafry your brain into addiction in one dose getting better every day. Police departments all over the country/west seem to be ineffective at enforcing order, courts are too delayed an…

At the same time there are many places that seem to have figured it out. The way Philadelphia chooses to run their city isn’t the only way.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#367

Post by reererer »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #213
Nifty3929 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US government will loan people very large sums to attend, which allows the universities to raise prices at will. The buyers are price-inelastic, which means that they want to go regardless of price, because they are surrounded by people that tell them that going to college is the right thing to do - and the more prestigious the better. College in the US would be a lot cheaper if the government didn't infl…

European colleges are incredibly thrifty, though. German universities for example can lack dorms, student unions, and professors lack TAs to grade homework (so homework isn't graded) and your entire grade depends on one final. We could do this in the USA also, or perhaps even bother with online universities, except those are generally considered not very useful as degrees.

That varies a lot between countries in EU. I live in Finland and my country has student unions, and professors are quite free to choose how they do the grading, so it's not always just one final exam per course. There are no dorms, but there is cheaper only-for-student housing. There are also really cheap state-subsidized meals in student restaurants on campus.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#368

Post by Hilift »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #47
TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

Why are such things in the US so complicated? Where I live, studying is much much cheaper for most professions,for everyone! That's the only fair way. Also, a set of well educated people pays itself back later in the form of mostly income and added value taxes, which provides money to keep studying for cheap for the next generation.

Some prominent universities in the US have ballooned with administration in the past 20 years. MIT in particular has a $1.2 billion administration cost out of a $4.5 billion annual budget.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#369

Post by bertylicious »

itake wrote: post #255
jedberg wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would incentivize them to only offer majors that lead to high incomes. By pooling the money it removes that issue.

jobs that pay well are a signal that there is high demand for this skill in our society and that more people need to develops these skills. Why would we not want universities to respond to that signal?

This is what Horkheimer and Adorno called "instrumental reason" ("instrumentelle Vernunft").

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#370

Post by jonasdegendt »

m463 wrote: post #325
jjeaff wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand why they might do this. Many people who own a small business underpay themselves significantly and use the extra funds on the business to build up assets. This defers taxes and allows the funds to be reinvested without tax. They might even take out loans on those business assets. The same way the wealthy will pay themselves a tiny salary and just live off the asset value of their stock. Someone who o…

I remember CEOs having a salary of $1...

Usually plus stock grants though, which are taxed as income.
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