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Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

medscape.com

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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#361

Post by braiamp »

shakna wrote: post #337
braiamp wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margin of error only occurs when you expect high variability and a very large population of measurements. When the set of potential measurements is of size 2, having enough statistical power can be achieved with very low sample size. Anyways, many results have survived stage 4 analysis (real world, observational, administrative documents sourced), even when their OG sample size is relatively small.

Statistical analysis in psychology is traditionally very poor, because there is an exceptionally high amount of variability. This is a known problem.

No, psychology studies have been traditionally very poor because most of the theory was literally out of someone ass, without proper design. Newer studies have been shown to be very robust, public freakout notwithstanding.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#362

Post by GuB-42 »

franga2000 wrote: post #351
GuB-42 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you don't know what a psychedelic experience is, any mind altering substance could do. For someone who never got drunk, it could even include alcohol. It is very hard to describe in words what a psychedelic experience is, so without a reference point, it is hard to tell if what you experienced is one or not.

Ok but now you're not comparing drug vs no drug but drug vs other drug. Yes it can be blind, but it's a cometely different study now

Suggestion alone can make you feel high. I remember someone telling me that he got high just by touching sweaty people in a music festival where most people were high, clearly, that's placebo. And that guy was far from drug-naive.

And they sometimes give active substances to the control arm to have an effect. I remember in a covid vaccine trial, they gave the meningitis vaccine to the control group to mimic the side effects of the covid vaccine they tried. Here, they actually gave a microdose of psilocybin (1mg) to the SSRI arm. I don't know why, but maybe it was enough for them to feel something without having the full effect.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#364

Post by fsckboy »

asveikau wrote: post #294
throwup238 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there’s a lot of self selection at work already. The vast majority of people don’t jump straight into psilocybin and LSD, they progress to them by taking softer drugs like alcohol and cannabis. I think a lot of people who don’t need “adjustment” figure out drugs don’t do much for them and stop before they take the intense psychedelics, or they figure it out at lower doses and stop before they take the inten…

Are you saying the claim that psychedelics are effective treatment for depression, PTSD, addiction etc. are simply because those who try it suffer those conditions? What about the part where they say it works effectively? Because I don't think alcohol or cannabis are claimed to be an effective treatment for these conditions in the same way that psychedelics are. The idea that it works seems irrelevant to your conclus…

sounds like a reasonable hypothesis, that people who are unhappy with their emotional/mental state might be more attracted to altering it, or might experience results they consider more positive.

how do our brains decide to do anything, like eat ice cream? "hey, I loved that last time". We know that drugs are not experienced as universally positive because many people who try them in college do not go on use them throughout their adult lives.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#365

Post by foobiekr »

arizen wrote: post #344
foobiekr wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mescaline is like the angry lover version of mushrooms. I did it once, two years ago to understand why it has been used, traditionally, as the baseline for comparison for psychedelic substances, and it was enlightening; it is certainly a tasting menu of the classical psychedelics, having at different points in the experience the flavor of stimulants, LSD, mushrooms and finally something all its own, but it is also mu…

What would you say about ayahuasca?

Never tried it. Seems like it's vaguely hard to consume safely since it is tied to shaman woo culture overseas. Supposedly there are sessions in the bay area, but I'm not cool enough to know people who know about them, or for that matter the other things I'd like to try.

I have a plan to try it, DMT, LSD, 2-CB and 5-MeO-DMT before I'm 60, so I guess I'd better get cracking as that isn't far away for me.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#366

Post by Traubenfuchs »

andoando wrote: post #254
neom wrote: post #21

Psilocybin saved my life. I'm no longer suicidal, I'm no longer a practicing alcoholic, and outside of a few things here and there, I'm generally at peace with my life. I cannot express how grateful I am for psilocybin.

Can you share some info on how much you took, and in what setting you took them, what you did on the trip, etc? I have a bunch of shrooms sitting in my cabinet but I havent had got any life altering effect out of them.

Same: I saw crazy stuff, but when the effects wore off, nothing had changed.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#367

Post by seec »

fsckboy wrote: post #279
yieldcrv wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone considers that, but because they’ll be dead by the time the studies narrow down anything they chose the substance that moves them towards results - or doesn’t everyone can perceive that psychedelic is doing many highly variable things at once and probably shouldn't be recommended, so they just say their experience

the vast majority of people who try psychedelics are not trying to escape untreatable clinical depression, they are doing it recreationally, for a roller coaster ride which they believe connects them with the Almighty or the Unknowable or the Dao or the All-loving Everpresent or the "insert word that sounds profound" These people are inspired—perhaps by the Almighty, i'm not judging—to preach The Gospel of psychedeli…

I have tried and use those things (mushrooms, LSD, MDMA) just for fun and I think they are alright if you understand that it is just that: a fun experience, like alcohol or cannabis can be. But I agree that there is a large amount of people taking those things and coming up with large amount of bullshit to justify taking it, in an attempt at pretending that they are more than just fun. It's always people who are very status conscious, hipster like, with narcissistic tendencies who want to impose their viewpoint in a way that makes them feel superior.

As far as I'm concerned, I think those things should be legal because not only sourcing them is easy anyway but it also escapes all quality control and regulation even though we still agree to sell much worse things as a society (like tobacco) and that's very incoherent.

I don't think any of the new age bullshit theory about healing mental illness (an already loosely defined thing) or whatever else is correct, but what is probably true, is that most of the stuff sold by the pharmaceutical companies is not any better (when it's not much worse) yet it is legal.

This is a classic case of capitalism bullshit: if you are having fun, you can't be a productive individual so that's not right, but in the meantime please buy our very similar drugs that's supposedly have the same results, without the fun.

One reason the advocates are going overboard with all the claims is probably because the industry is allowed to do the same with much less scrutiny, so it is an attempt at equilibrium, I guess. I doubt they will be successful at fighting fire with fire but it is annoying that it is such a political issue, people should be allowed to take those things if they want to...

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#368

Post by seec »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #366
andoando wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share some info on how much you took, and in what setting you took them, what you did on the trip, etc? I have a bunch of shrooms sitting in my cabinet but I havent had got any life altering effect out of them.

Same: I saw crazy stuff, but when the effects wore off, nothing had changed.

Yes, that's pretty normal, that's actually expected behavior. I think people saying it changed stuff are the ones having a problem in the first place (reality perception, lack of sensitivity or whatever).

Just like alcohol, those things are basically a poison, that you do not die from, provided you don't overdose (you probably have more chance dying of alcohol than mushrooms but still...).

People should take them to have a bit of fun, just like getting inebriated with alcohol and moving on with their life.

Beware of people who tries to pretend more, that are most likely full of shit and you can probably ignore most things they say if they lie about that...

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#369

Post by seec »

andoando wrote: post #255
neom wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did 3 sessions of 8 grams in silent darkness for 3 weekends in a row and that basically "beat the devil out of me" as they say - it was very very difficult, and a lot of work, but well worth it.I've only felt the "brain haze" (I call it) once since then, I took a gram and went for a long walk in the forest, back to no haze. It's been about 7/8 months and I can feel the "haze" building in my mind again, so I plan to…

8 grams in one sitting? Im not even so worried about the psychological response but even a gram can give me extreme stomach pain and nausea that ruins the whole thing.

LSD has somewhat the same effect but in a cleaner way. It's not really about the mushroom itself or the way you ingest it.

That being said, mushrooms are not very good regardless so you can process them in a way that makes it palatable (teas, blended smoothies, etc). But that won't make that weird nausea feeling disappear, you just get used to it and it slowly becomes unnoticeable as you progress on the "experiment".

The nausea is a response of your body, telling you that you ingested something bad, because that basically what those things are: a poison, just a non-lethal one, and we know the positive fun effects so it makes it worth it, otherwise you would just want to throw up !

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#370

Post by seec »

matrix87 wrote: post #319
jrflowers wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For folks that are interested in anecdotes about psychedelics, I recommend reading Erowid expertise vaults as what gets volunteered here is very narrow and not representative of the population as a whole. I would know, as my psychedelic mega dose stories are very different from this and also completely unique to me. I’ve done 500ug of LSD and it was great fun. I scheduled a day off to rest ahead of time and was back…

You shouldn't compare mega doses for shrooms vs acid, they both hit very differently shrooms feel kind of weak until you get to mega dose territory I wouldn't recommend a shroom mega dose either, it feels too chaotic to take anything away from

I very much disagree, the effects are extremely similar, to the point where if one could match the active substance dosage as well as absorption rate, you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference.

The relative difference is because people generally don't process their shrooms very well and they take much longer to digest (slower release over time) and also its very impossible to judge the potency of the shrooms beforehand (so most go on the safe side dosage); as a starter shrooms are more unpredictable than truffles.

I had the same argument with a friend who gave me a bit of LSD (total dosage unknown, it was edible) and I tried a few days ago, it was basically the same as good shrooms. In fact, I believe the dose was on the low side, it was faster to take action but the "core" experience was shorter and "lower" than just 15 grams of good truffles.

The only thing with LSD is that it takes longer to completely clear out of your system (because it is already extracted in pure form, while shrooms have to be digested/processed by your system in a less efficient/effective way) but I don't like that very much because you end up in this in-between state where you are clearly not high anymore but also restless with secondary effects that are not really cool/interesting.

In any case it would be rather surprising if it was different, because molecularly they are extremely close.

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