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Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

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Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#361
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be they’re just against taxes. How could that be a surprising thing to you? In democracies, the massive bulk of people are voting to steal the money of the rich. That’s not cool.

That sounds really, really cool to me. And it's an abuse of language to call it stealing.

It's not, it's literally what it is. Per default, accumulating wealth contains risks for the individual attempting to do so, and increasingly more and more of the wealth is stripped away while reducing none of the risk. Thats absolutely theft.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#362
At the start of the circuit the government prints and spends money, at the end it collects the money as taxes. This creates a current of economic activity. The duty to pay tax is the primary incentive that stimulates the citizens to put in effort and gets this into motion. The proper action is not to try to pay less taxes, but to put in more effort and make the money to pay the taxes.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who acquire money simply reset the goalposts. ESPN recently did a movie on what happened to poor people who suddenly became multi-millionaires when they joined a pro sports team. TLDR: they quickly spent it all and wound up with nothing. It turns out to be amazingly easy to burn through a million dollars.

I can't refute that. while I arguably (by my family line's standard) came into "life changing money" I also did have a bunch of upbringing from family, education, and second hand experience to take steps to avoid that. But I agree that words are cheap, and 6 to 7 figures is yet another magnitude of life changing. On a similar note, I do understand the peer pressure that comes with being on a team like that. "traditio…

I've often thought that public schools need to have a course in basic financial accounting. It isn't very hard, and is just adding and subtracting.

After all, we live in a market society, shouldn't students be at least able to read a simple P&L statement and balance sheet?

I always wanted to start a business, so on summer break I took a course in basic accounting from the local community college, and it has served me very well ever since.

Will Smith is another cautionary tale. As a teen, he made it big with his Fresh Prince rap songs. He blew all the money on partying. Then the IRS came knocking. It had never occurred to him he had to pay income tax on his millions, which no longer existed. He made a deal with the IRS. On his show "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air", all his earnings other than an allowance went to the IRS.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#364
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be they’re just against taxes. How could that be a surprising thing to you? In democracies, the massive bulk of people are voting to steal the money of the rich. That’s not cool.

They’re also voting for the policies that enable safe wealth accumulation and preservation, so “steal” seems like the wrong word—though there may well be some wealthy people who feel stolen from inasmuchas they’d rather live in a less secure society where they could try to be the winning warlord. Most capitalists see the value of a stable consumer class, though, backed up by a legal system and economic policy that in…

They're literally plotting policies of "wealth redistribution" in the EU at least. The idiot bureaucrats can call it what they want, but forcibly redistributing your assets more and more to other people makes it thievery.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#365
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor correction: maintaining the lifestyle of billionaire coastal developers and their clientele will be much much more expensive. The poors will continue to be encouraged to eat shit and die as per usual.

Yes, typically poor people’s contribution to the economy isn’t as great individually. Groundbreaking stuff.

The cute thing there being they outnumber the big fish by something like 400,000 to 1 in the US and without them there is literally no economy and no billionaire class.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#366
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be they’re just against taxes. How could that be a surprising thing to you? In democracies, the massive bulk of people are voting to steal the money of the rich. That’s not cool.

In democracies, the minority who own the bulk of wealth are lobbying to ensure they avoid paying taxes. That’s not cool. Firstly - many developed countries have higher tax rates than America. Secondly - the issue isn’t being rich. The issue is that tax avoidance for so many years has resulted in absurd levels of wealth capture. Thirdly - no polity level discussion can happen effectively, because that wealth ensures p…

> Firstly - many developed countries have higher tax rates than America.

This is mostly not true. People are often confused into comparing US federal taxes to the totality of taxes in other countries, but US states levy taxes too. The total of state and federal taxes is often in excess of 50%, which is higher than the OECD average.

> The issue is that tax avoidance for so many years has resulted in absurd levels of wealth capture.

The primary cause of this is not tax avoidance, it's market concentration. If your company has 0.1% of the industry and is worth a billion dollars and you pay a 0% effective tax rate, you have a billion dollars. If your company has 50% of the industry and is worth $500 billion dollars and you pay a 70% effective tax rate, you still have $150 billion, i.e. 150 times as much. Also, effective tax rates have never actually been 70%.

> Thirdly - no polity level discussion can happen effectively, because that wealth ensures productive discussion is mired in controversy by the time it reaches the voting public.

The real problem is that the tax system is intentionally convoluted to conceal from the public who is paying what and where the money is going. This benefits the rich in many cases, but it mostly benefits Congress, who can lie to people about what's going on to get their votes even while screwing them in particular. This is not a partisan issue; both parties want more money and want it to go to their cronies, so neither of them wants to simplify the tax system into something sensible and harder to game, because it would interfere with the diversion of everyone's tax money to the politically connected.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds really, really cool to me. And it's an abuse of language to call it stealing.

It's not, it's literally what it is. Per default, accumulating wealth contains risks for the individual attempting to do so, and increasingly more and more of the wealth is stripped away while reducing none of the risk. Thats absolutely theft.

Fulfilling your obligation to a society that brought you riches, however much risk you took and however much hard work vs luck that was, is not theft. Fueling that society, so that it can persist for your well-being is your obligation as a citizen.

If you fully play out your argument, the least wealthy and least successful deserve it the most to have their remaining wealth taken because they are not assuming any risk in this society.

I think that is a very destructive world view.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#368
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always said people should be able to directly allocate where their taxes go within the government expenditures, or be able to file an objection based on religious or philosophical beliefs to having their tax dollars fund morally objectionable things. I would be much happier to pay taxes if they went to funding schools, infrastructure, NASA, emergency management, poverty relief and other useful things instead of…

I’ve gotten to see some of that at a local level and… I just don’t know. We barely managed to pass a local school levy to recoup from a major accounting error that would have meant massive layoffs for the district. It’s a pretty good district academically, and I was shocked at how many empty nesters (new ones, too) were vocal about voting no just because “no new taxes“, despite all of their kids consuming that very s…

Hypothecated taxes are an anti-pattern, for precisely this reason. Setting the budget and setting the taxes should be somewhat separated (but not too separated!)

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point in my life I took a step back to look at my life and how I’m doing and how much I pay for that life. Maybe I’m just incredibly lucky. My conservative expectation is that we all have to start contributing a lot more over the next few decades if we want to maintain our standard of living, otherwise it will just gradually get worse. I hope I’m wrong.

Please note - this is a more modern belief. Something that solidified in the zeitgeist post 2008. If you go to early Reddit, you will see it a staunchly pro market, anti tax stronghold - as was HN. For eons, “competition” was the mantra along with “greed is good”. Many people who own wealth reached there with that ethos. No one has to “contribute more”. That’s the opportunity for whichever bright eye person decides t…

> Lobbying for convenient rules, lobbying for weakened regulators has given far more advantage to firms, which then use that wealth to become rent seekers. They dont need to innovate, because they can litigate.

One of the big problems here, and the lobbyists do this on purpose, is that they promote the false notion that the issue is the quantity of regulations and not their substance. Quantity can be an issue when the number of regulations becomes excessive and their sheer number thwarts competition by creating high barriers to entry, but "incumbents want fewer regulations" is not only misleading but typically the opposite of what really happens.

Incumbents want to get rid of regulations that protect competition and add regulations that inhibit it. What we need, of course, is the opposite. Which isn't as simple as "make number of regulations go up/down", it matters very much which ones and what they do.

> Compliance costs ensure fair play between entities of unequal strength.

This is completely the opposite. Compliance costs are generally fixed costs, i.e. every entity has to hire a lawyer and pay them $250,000. For a megacorp this is negligible and they don't even notice, for a small business they're now out of the market because that amount of expense would bankrupt them. The more rules you have, the higher that number gets. This is the sense in which the absolute number of rules matters.

But it still depends what they are. Even if you only have a couple of rules, the incumbents will want rules that only they can comply with. Conversely, you can hypothetically have a lot of rules and still have them easy to comply with, though this is certainly easier said than done. What you really want is to have a small number of rules, but the right rules -- the ones the incumbents don't want and their smaller competitors do.

Re: Buy, Borrow, Die – Explained

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re also voting for the policies that enable safe wealth accumulation and preservation, so “steal” seems like the wrong word—though there may well be some wealthy people who feel stolen from inasmuchas they’d rather live in a less secure society where they could try to be the winning warlord. Most capitalists see the value of a stable consumer class, though, backed up by a legal system and economic policy that in…

They're literally plotting policies of "wealth redistribution" in the EU at least. The idiot bureaucrats can call it what they want, but forcibly redistributing your assets more and more to other people makes it thievery.

The longer people will call it communist plot and insist on not paying taxes, the higher is the probability of having the actual communist plot and being exiled to the Moon by a popular vote.
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