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Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

reuters.com

361–370 of 449 posts

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#361
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the US - it's scary over there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

Our work culture is a strong part of why the US is so economically dominant. Reap what you sow “I work to live not live to work” crowd. Your destiny is to be further economically colonized by the “I live to work” crowd.

This strike me as a very naive view of the world.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#362

I've dabbled in management a few times in my career. This meant attending manager-only meetings and trainings. I'll never forget one time when a manager in a focus group said something along the lines of, "The tech sector is going through a rough patch, so we can turn the screws on our employees and they'll have to take it because they will have a hard time trying to find a job somewhere else." This is at a company w…

I had a manager relate to me overhearing almost that exact comment made in a manager meeting at a mid-size corp I worked for in 2008. He left in part because of that attitude, and I ultimately did too. It’s egregiously abusive.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking my managed container image registry service as an example. - The only critical alert that can actually page people is if the blackbox test fails. Every 30 seconds, it downloads a test image and if the contents don't match the expectation, an alert is raised (with some delay). - Warning alerts are mostly for any errors being returned from background tasks, but these are only monitored during business hours.

i dont see how that is separated from the underlying infra. If the network/server/some dependency goes down, the blackbox test will fail and you'll get paged.

You can test for this. For example, we had routines that were called on repeated HTTP failures that would then get 5 or so of the top US websites. If those fail too, it moves from an application error to an infra one.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#364

I like the Swiss implementation of this. A manager _can_ contact an employee on a Sunday, but then the employee is immediately on weekend-rate overtime even if they just got an email with "deal with this next week". So, many companies have systems that hold back e-mail sent outside of working hours until the next working day unless specially authorised and costed. Never underestimate an economics-based solution to a…

Does the manager also get weekend-rate overtime if she sends out e-mails on the weekend? I mean, she _is_ working! Sounds like an incentive mismatch here. Or is this just a protection of workers on a tariff and does not cover "exempt" employees, ie. most IT people.

Upper management does not need to log working hours and can work unpaid overtime. So, they can easily exchange emails on weekends. But when they involve a regular employee, who has to reach working hours, then it's overtime.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#365
In my country it is not unusual for people to work 36 hours. You'd imagine that a nation like Korea or Japan would be twice as rich because they work 70 hours yet it doesn't seem to go that way...

Obviously if you do have a 50-70 workweek your job IS your life. Your co workers are your best friends and it doesn't matter if they call you up in the middle of the night. I have observed that in Workaholic cultures people spend a lot of time socialising with co-workers and less time on actually working.

I prefer the Dutch style of "working to live". Even if that means that you have to bring your own food and eat it behind a laptop. You can socialise at home.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#366

I've dabbled in management a few times in my career. This meant attending manager-only meetings and trainings. I'll never forget one time when a manager in a focus group said something along the lines of, "The tech sector is going through a rough patch, so we can turn the screws on our employees and they'll have to take it because they will have a hard time trying to find a job somewhere else." This is at a company w…

You pretty much summed up managers that have most of their employees on H1-B in the US. I know multiple managers that offload most of the work to the Asian immigrants on the H1-B visa, have them work 10+ hours a day and know that they can get them to do anything they want, because if they don't, they are scared that they can get fired and have to leave the country. I know multiple friends who silently work on weekends to potentially avoid being fired and leave the country!

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#367
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This law reduces the extent to which flexible employees can add (and extract, via hight salary!) value, and the extent to which customers receive timely service. Not at all. It means that if they want employees to be on call they have to pay for it.

This is nearly always a myth. On call has a huge precedent, it's not tech, it's the health sector. "Paid" on call is already defined as the active portion where you're responding to a page, not the passive portion where you're carrying the pager. Some countries have rules around time to respond within the definition of active vs passive, but most do not and the carrying the pager isn't compensated at all. Even with t…

Payment buys time that people can't be doing what they want to. If what they want is to be drinking 10 beers, then the options are either paying them not to (i.e. paying for passive on-call time), or accepting that if there is a call they might not be able to handle it since they could be half in the bag.

This practice will only continue as long as people accept it.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#368
post #38

dammit, i thought aussies were more freedom loving than even usians. i have met and interacted with some of them, and have read a good amount about them, too. did aussies not have this right, earlier? I don't know if it should even be called a right, because it seems obvious. to me, it sound more like an attack by employers on employees, to say they cannot do such a thing - before this so-called "right" was ”given".…

Employment contracts here usually state that you work X hours a week, likely 38 or less unless your union did a bad job, and can only work more if the hours are "reasonable" according to a bunch of criteria. This was previously enough to cut down on most of this kind of nonsense, but has not proven sufficient in the age of smartphones.

wow. just the existence of smartphones seems to be not enough of a reason to drop these contracts or criteria. in fact one would think it should be the opposite, because smartphones are so disruptive and distracting.

maybe the unions need to understand that and incorporate that understanding while negotiating.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#369

I've dabbled in management a few times in my career. This meant attending manager-only meetings and trainings. I'll never forget one time when a manager in a focus group said something along the lines of, "The tech sector is going through a rough patch, so we can turn the screws on our employees and they'll have to take it because they will have a hard time trying to find a job somewhere else." This is at a company w…

[deleted]

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#370
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our work culture is a strong part of why the US is so economically dominant. Reap what you sow “I work to live not live to work” crowd. Your destiny is to be further economically colonized by the “I live to work” crowd.

This strike me as a very naive view of the world.

Look at how dominant the USA is compared to the europeans who love to make fun of us for working so hard. The USA is about to be flung into another golden century due to its dominance in GenAI. Frogs/the EU will be too busy eating caiver served by rude waiters to realize that huggingface and mistral are all they have to compete with us. Eventually they won't be able to afford the caiver anymore. You laugh, but look at how the UK economy is doing. That's the future of Europe.

Yeah it sucks to have a bad wlb work culture, but the alternative is losing what makes America so awesome.

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