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Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

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Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#361

Post by lelanthran »

zmmmmm wrote: post #169
giobox wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can’t even get people to routinely turn a webcam on at most companies existing meetings. Even internally at Meta and Apple, staff aren’t exactly falling over themselves to take meetings in headsets right now. The idea people will be strapping computers to their faces for meetings will “take off in a huge way” any time soon is extremely far fetched for me.

It depends on what you mean by "soon". For sure, it's not happening next year. But within 5 years I think the hardware will get to a point where it's possible, and then within 10 it will be compelling. The "strapping computers to their faces" meme is just stupid hyperbole. It's no more insightful than declaring that nobody wants to stuff a computer into their pocket - when 99% of people now carry smart phones (and mo…

> The "strapping computers to their faces" meme is just stupid hyperbole. It's no more insightful than declaring that nobody wants to stuff a computer into their pocket - when 99% of people now carry smart phones

Depends on how you define 'computer': content creation or content consumption?

Because everyone with a 'computer' in their pocket has nothing more than 'interactive television' in their pocket.

They literally do not do computing on it in any meaningful way.[1]

[1] Maybe they use the calculator. But that's about it.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#362

Post by audunw »

fidotron wrote: post #151

It has been clear from fairly early on the AVP should never have launched - it just has no reason to exist. I cannot escape thinking there must have been some internal argument where the choices ended up as kill the project or release what we have, and the latter was chosen because it was seen to be easier. Let’s face it, without Zuck’s personal interest reality labs would have gone years ago. It is one thing for com…

> it just has no reason to exist

I’ve seen plenty of people who have found a legitimate use for it. And as many have pointed out it serves as a dev kit that also happened to be sold to consumers. It helps Apple and developers figure out what people actually want to use the device for.

There also seems to be a lot of people who find it to be a near perfect implementation of VR/AR, except for size/weight, price and perhaps the resolution and fov could be just a tad better.

These seem like things they could fix with a second gen non-pro headset.

The automatic eye adjustment and external screen may be an expression of an ultimate VR experience but can easily be dropped with a non pro version. With less heat the fans can be smaller. Perhaps they can start using those new piezo based blowers. The metal body and external battery pack will already help keep things cool despite the powerful chips and high power consumption.

The existence of the pro version will give a halo effect that will make it easier for Apple to sell a non pro version, even if it’s still more expensive than the most expensive Oculus headsets.

Whether they’ll increase resolution and fov is uncertain. They might wait until it can inherit the tech from a second gen pro version.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#363

Post by __rito__ »

UberFly wrote: post #293
umvi wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Quest 2. Half Life: Alyx is one of the most amazing games I've ever played. And yet... I haven't finished it. When I have free time to play games I'd rather play my Switch. It's a lot more hassle setting up HL: Alyx, and the heavy headgear bugs my nose and causes eye strain headaches eventually if I play too much. So instead I play Tetris 99.

I have a Quest 2. After 6 months the non-replaceable battery lost 70% of its capacity and the controllers developed unfixable drift. Never making the Meta mistake again.

The Quest 2 has a NON-REPLACEABLE battery?

Whoa. I was considering buying one, but I won't buy it anymore.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#364

Post by zardo »

asadotzler wrote: post #95
tchock23 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? Come on. I was one of the first hundred people to kickstart the Rift and have owned every major consumer headset (except the Index) since. The AVP absolutely destroys the Rift in every way. The only strong argument for Rift/etc. would be for gaming, but the AVP isn’t being sold as a gaming device. The new beta Vision OS2 also signicantly improves hand gestures. I too was unimpressed with the Apple Store AV…

Right, because the AVP is ignoring the only useful application for VR today by eschewing precision controllers to try to get OFFICE WORKERS to strap on this monstrosity of a strap-on facial PC to do PRODUCTIVITY tasks. What a joke.

I'm sure not going to drop $3k on one, but I've had bosses that would want to drop $300k to outfit the whole department with tech that we don't have a use for.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#365

Post by whitehexagon »

I suspect these newer headsets have struggled because of walled gardens and crazy pricing, and thus lack of developer interest.

The Oculus DK2 was just a second monitor, amazingly simple and fun to develop for. One of the most developer friendly devices I worked with.

Oculus CV1 proprietary driver, forced experience, worsening SDK and dropping linux basically killed the device (and VR) for me, even before fb got their grubby mits on it.

So I struggle to understand these premium devices, when there seems to be no developer incentive to build for these platforms. Shame, I think VR still has some great potential, but I will never don a headset that needs an account or shows me even a single advert.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#366

Post by moi2388 »

VR will probably never be more than a gimmick imo.

AR is where the market is at. Regular glasses, with current phone capabilities, like painting the actual road you’re going to travel green would already get hundreds of thousands of adopters.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#367

Post by scheeseman486 »

screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

It's still photogrammetry + skybox, not that much different from what Valve were showing off in The Lab back in 2016. PPD is higher on account of the more advanced headset and that does make a difference, but it didn't blow me away or anything. You can still see the seams when you look close, the cutoff point between geometry and façade, you notice that there's never much foliage nearby, that anything animated tends to look like a mesh from a video game, because it is.

They really need to figure out true, perspective correct volumetric video already.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#368

Post by scheeseman486 »

talldayo wrote: post #167
loeg wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dumber than that. Meta just wants to own an App Store and get 30% of some platform's revenue.

I'd believe that better if Meta didn't also deliberately provide a sideloading mechanism and encourage homebrew. It's a believable end-goal, but it doesn't seem to be the direction they want to go in the immediate future.

They can close that door any time they want, all they have to do is add a paywall for a developer account.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#369

Post by paretoer »

giobox wrote: post #159
zmmmmm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the teleportation angle is even more compelling from the point of view of enabling virtual co-presence. With photo-realistic avatars as Apple and Meta have both demonstrated are fully possible, we'll soon be in a situation where you can click a button and be fully present with anybody anywhere, any time. This is as close to true physical teleportation that humanity will ever get, and I expect that once it's m…

We can’t even get people to routinely turn a webcam on at most companies existing meetings. Even internally at Meta and Apple, staff aren’t exactly falling over themselves to take meetings in headsets right now. The idea people will be strapping computers to their faces for meetings will “take off in a huge way” any time soon is extremely far fetched for me.

I almost never put my camera on. I think people mostly like turning their camera on to show off their home office, living room or book case. Beyond that, there is just no point. It is a distraction overall.

Business meetings in headsets is just completely delusional. It is one of the dumbest tech ideas of all time.

Re: Meta cancels high-end mixed reality headset after Apple Vision Pro struggles

#370

Post by zarzavat »

geoelectric wrote: post #111
screye wrote: post #53

A counter point on premium VR headsets. They are teleportation devices. I've used every popular VR device, but one Vision Pro experience stood out - 'The Haleakala environment'[1] It was literally like being transported there. I know because I had been in that exact spot a few years before. I have a rich visual memory which served as reference, and no exaggeration, it felt like was there. I was immediately in tears.…

The thing is that I don’t really see the Vision Pro as Palm OS. Palm OS was out for years and years and was really successful, all things considered. Sure, it wasn’t as ubiquitous as iOS or Android now, but it obviously filled a niche for a large enough number of people that it stuck around and pioneered that market. I had a Kyocera 6035 Palm “smartphone” over half a decade before the iPhone came out, and the Handspr…

Yes, it’s the games stupid.

There is one group of people who are willing to spend ludicrous amounts of money for this product, and that’s gamers.

Unfortunately Apple does not and has never understood games as art. They only care about casual games that bring in the $$.

Apple also has beefs with Khronos, NVIDIA, and Epic.

I had thought that when VP came out, Apple would make amends with the gaming industry particularly Epic because they really need Epic’s on their side for VP to succeed. Who is going to build games for this thing in the best engine if Apple can ban Epic’s developer account at any time?

Nope. App Store revenue comes first. It’s just the same as the iPad Pro. Great hardware squandered because of App Store rent seeking.

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