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DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

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Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#361
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should build large numbers of commie blocks until PE firms regret buying residential properties.

Better yet, we can just copy Singapore or Vienna's public housing systems and actually have desirable public housing. Arguably, the reason we don't already have this is because a large contingent of the voting public has been conditioned to believe that if the government does something well, it's communism, so the government should do anything well.

It's less a belief that the government shouldn't do anything well, and more a belief that it can't.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#362

I am excited and optimistic that we appear to be applying economic principles to housing! Now that we're getting rid of centralized price controls / collusion, next can we do supply/demand?

>>Now that we're getting rid of centralized price controls / collusion

>give me a dossier on BlackRock's holdings in real estate, go into detail on their holdings in residential, get as much real financial from their filings and reports. Give me a markdown table and an instaml/instaql schema for the data model

* Blackrock would like a word

https://i.imgur.com/PLwQ6sa.png

https://i.imgur.com/1oAdbdC.png

https://i.imgur.com/nH0Vzf8.png

    Fund  TotalAssets ResidentialAssets #units

    BRGIF      $14.8B  $10.3B 43,000+ units

    BREIT      $12.2B  $6.5B  25,000+ units

    BREIT II   $8.5B  $4.8B   18,000+ units

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a town where all the officials express politically popular laments about the affordability of housing, but every time a developer wants to build apartments or tear down some old run-down post-war cookie-cutter houses for modern duplexs or tri-levels these same officials run them through a gauntlet of demands and then often as not end up denying the permits. They say they want dense, walkable, core neighborh…

That's not most municipalities though. There are a lot of places, particularly the high demand places, where the cost of acquiring the houses in the first place is the hang up. Everyone is certain they can get half a mil minimum. That drives costs considerably when you need 1/2 a block, or a full block for high density development. It's not easy. You could even have to end up giving the current land owners some prefe…

> Land acquisition costs were so high that it precludes building anything that can offer that

"The median time for securing approval to build in San Francisco is 627 days" [1]. Land-development loans cost between 8 and 12% [2]. The financing cost alone of that delay thus adds 15 to 20% to the cost of any housing in San Francisco. At the median.

Add the risk of not getting approved and the cost of the lawyers and lobbyists and I wouldn't be surprised if these officials bump real estate costs by 50%.

[1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/sf-hou...

[2] https://eyeonhousing.org/2023/05/rates-on-development-and-co...

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they are renting something they can't afford, if ownership is their goal. When I was saving for my first house I lived in a crappy little 1 bedroom apartment for a few years so that I could get a down payment together. I had the income to afford renting a larger apartment or a house in a nicer area but I would not have been able to save anything.

When was this? Have you paid attention to the percentage of wages required for a unit nationally? In your area?

> Have you paid attention to the percentage of wages required for a unit nationally? In your area?

Roommates.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, you're reading the wrong thing about it. Fixing supply and demand means things like punishing vacancies with taxation, promoting construction with tax breaks, and removing the demand by severely limiting rent seeking real estate investors.

I follow the RE space, and have done some RE investments (albeit mild ones - I don't own homes to rent or anything like that). > punishing vacancies with taxation Outside of tourist spots, this will hurt more than it will help. Most RE investors lose money on vacancies (it's literally a line item in their expenses) and work hard not to have them. They definitely do not make more money by artificially limiting supply…

Taxes on vacant rental units means they'll be sold sooner, and increases the odds they'll be sold to an occupant instead of a speculator. I am a capitalist above basically anything else but that sounds great to me (and I already own a home and will likely never move again).

> Almost everyone I know who purchases houses/apartments to rent them would get out of the business if vacancies were taxed

Yes, you've successfully articulated the point. In an actual free market where supply can be added easily with minimal headache, buying an asset to rent it back is perfectly fine. In something like the housing marketing, buying a home specifically to rent it out is bad whether it's one unit or one thousand because supply is already artificially constrained. The end of that line is BlackRock buying up thousands of homes and materially hurting Americans. The fact that some random person with a few million in inheritance can make money in the interim is irrelevant.

> but a lot of houses would also go out of circulation, because these people often buy distressed homes that banks won't give a loan on - and they renovate them, bring them up to code, etc.

It's pretty easily to exclude vacant homes with open permits that are actively being renovated or with 203(k) loans, or to provide revenue-neutral tax breaks. This is a legitimate criticism but it means you address the criticism, it doesn't mean the original goal is bad or impossible.

> There are ways to do this that may not be popular. The main one would be to remove fixed interest mortgages.

We should definitely remove fixed-interest mortgages for non-owner occupied purchases.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#366
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rid of the law of supply and demand is like getting rid of Boyle’s law. Legislate whatever you want but the behavior those laws model will still exist. I prefer to think of it this way. I like my markets free as in GPL, not free as in BSD. That is, I want the market itself to be free with limitations on the participants that keep them from taking it for themselves.

This is moronic. Economic theory is a self-reinforcing veneer of soft science studying observed human behavior with wild variance between different cultures, geographic markets, and individual people. The "laws of supply and demand" are not empirical laws of physics. They are general principles with well-known exceptions and flaws of their own. You should lay off the microdosing.

> "laws of supply and demand" are not empirical laws of physics

Game theory is mathematics, not science. You can derive the basics of supply and demand from game theory.

Economics is a soft science. But so is history and, I'd argue, a good deal of computer science.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#367

I am excited and optimistic that we appear to be applying economic principles to housing! Now that we're getting rid of centralized price controls / collusion, next can we do supply/demand?

>> Now that we're getting rid of centralized price controls / collusion > give me a dossier on BlackRock's holdings in real estate, go into detail on their holdings in residential, get as much real financial from their filings and reports. Give me a markdown table and an instaml/instaql schema for the data model * Blackrock would like a word https://i.imgur.com/PLwQ6sa.png https://i.imgur.com/1oAdbdC.png https://i.im…

You and what I assume is your AI companion are victims of some viral misinformation about BlackRock. BREIT and BREIT II are managed by an unrelated company named Blackstone - the fund names in your third image are incorrect. BRGIF does not, as far as I can tell, exist at all.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, you're reading the wrong thing about it. Fixing supply and demand means things like punishing vacancies with taxation, promoting construction with tax breaks, and removing the demand by severely limiting rent seeking real estate investors.

I follow the RE space, and have done some RE investments (albeit mild ones - I don't own homes to rent or anything like that). > punishing vacancies with taxation Outside of tourist spots, this will hurt more than it will help. Most RE investors lose money on vacancies (it's literally a line item in their expenses) and work hard not to have them. They definitely do not make more money by artificially limiting supply…

> Most RE investors lose money on vacancies (it's literally a line item in their expenses) and work hard not to have them

Plenty of landlords would rather a unit in a building go empty for longer than compromise on rent in a way that weakens their negotiating position with the other units. (Also, with lenders.)

The argument for taxing vacancies is city taxes are often set on the assumption of occupancy. A vacant unit doesn't contain a tax-paying worker. The vacancy tax adjusts for that.

> Remove tax benefits like bonus depreciation or accelerated depreciation

Agree.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land Value Tax[0] is the way. It strongly incentivizes the following: > The owner of a vacant lot in a thriving city must still pay a tax and would rationally perceive the property as a financial liability, encouraging them to put the land to use in order to cover the tax. LVT removes financial incentives to hold unused land solely for price appreciation, making more land available for productive uses. Land value tax…

This has already failed. The bay area is full of empty land and buildings owned by firms and a horrific housing situation. Doesn't stop the statists from proposing yet more tax for every single problem though.

California doesn't count because they have a de-facto landed gentry.

In 1978 they passed a ballot initiative[0] that locks in property tax rates until a home is sold or renovated. This was further amended[1] to allow generational transfers of those rates. The end result is an extreme disincentive to sell land and a class of homeowners with favorable tax treatment who want the state to be coated in amber. Any market intervention is useless without addressing the harms caused by the current property tax regime and the people who benefit from it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13...

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