Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

afterbabel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 824 posts

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#361

Post by swat535 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

This is so true. I'm a practicing Catholic which gives me the advantage of having access to a big community and I even met my wife through Church events after Mass so it's wonderful. Also our Church offers many other programs like counseling, support groups, volunteering, career opportunities, etc. Of course no one should be forced to attend "Church" just to find a community, that's silly but its benefits are pretty clear.

However for non-religious people there is really no third place to meet. Additionally, the truth is that outside of religious communities, people are not having children and thus it creates a further sense of isolation and loneliness. The best one can do is perhaps join meetup groups for hobbies but most of those cost money and may not be welcoming to everyone.

I would also say that this can be a cultural phenomenon, for example in my home country (Iran) people are always meeting and socializing, at 10PM streets are bursting with activities and it's very easy to find people to connect with. In the west, unfortunately it's much harder and society is more focused on the individual rather than the collective so to approach a stranger in the street feels like a risk as they might consider your actions rude, disruptive or invading their personal space.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#362

Post by kelipso »

lawlessone wrote: post #241
StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

Wonder what that percentage would look like as a function of relationship length.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#363

Post by mensetmanusman »

krapp wrote: post #256
2snakes wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certain elements that are not true. But other ones are true. There are many ways to alleviate suffering.

God is not true, at least not the sense that any religion claims (God as an abstraction and a meme is as real as any other, as real as Harry Potter or Slenderman) Claims of absolute moral right or authority derived from divine right are not true. Claims made by the religious that belief in God is a prerequisite to morality, community or cultural identity are not true. Claims made by religious teachings about the natu…

God as defined by Jews/Christians as ‘being itself’ doesn’t seem disprovable. Especially if you believe that love is real in the whatever- sense.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#364

Post by dmkolobov »

silverquiet wrote: post #327
dmkolobov wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in Nashville I've frequently heard that religion is a prerequisite to ethics. While I disagree in principle, I struggle to come up with an example where philosophy and ethics are discussed in a secular setting outside of school(academia included) and politics. It would not surprise me that on the whole our society is worse off for lack of a widespread secular tradition of discussing these concepts with you…

It's always looked to me like from a first approximation, people just do whatever they want and come up with justifications. The smarter they are, the more elaborate the justification. I doubt I'm above it.

Right. I would argue that organized religion provides(provided?) a guided framework of accountability, transparency, and acceptance for your "justifications" amongst your community. In a vacuum, these differences compound into a complete breakdown of understanding.

It's harder to call someone a "libtard" or a "troglodyte" if you have to sit next to them in a pew for the rest of your life.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#365

Post by throwup238 »

HideousKojima wrote: post #350
nradov wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most communities there's no longer much social stigma against going to a bar/pub and ordering non-alcoholic beverages. The latest non-alcoholic beers are actually pretty good. (I do understand that the environment itself can be difficult for recovering alcoholics.)

I used to go out not-drinking with my coworkers (I've been a teetotaler my entire life). The place we went to had free refills for sodas so I downed half a dozen glasses of Fanta while my coworkers were paying $3-$5 a beer. Seems ridiculous to me how much people pay for alcohol.

A bunch of places now have "mocktails" which are just cocktails without alcohol so you can one up your alcoholic friends by spending $3-5 per glass of sugar water.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#366

Post by extr »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Even economically mediated third places are being phased out in some respects. When I was a teen we often hung out at a local McDonalds. Super cheap food, free refills, as long as you didn't cause trouble you could stay for awhile. I went back there somewhat recently and I was shocked at the difference. It's been remodeled to have less seating, no refills, most of the lobby/counter area is touchscreens, and of course prices are way, way up compared to when I was a teen (which was not THAT long ago). It felt sterile inside, it was clear they didn't want you hanging out for long. Not a teen in sight.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#367

Post by hateful »

goethes_kind wrote: post #183
kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

I'm in my 30s but I'm feeling this so hard. Growing up we used to have these kid/youth centres that were run by local Catholic organizations. We used to hang out there after school. Ostensibly the point was that there'd be 30 minutes of catechism doctrine, but we didn't really care about that. To us it was just a the place where everyone would be. I miss that so much. A place where you can just go and meet people you…

It should be noted that this wasn't free - as you said, you had to sit through a 30 minute ad before participating.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#368

Post by Wytwwww »

racional wrote: post #355
Wytwwww wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a certain point (probably to a large extent already) Ukraine will simply run out of manpower. Demographically it was in a very poor state to begin with to such a degree they had to keep the MINIMUM age of conscription at 27 and lowered it to 25 a few months ago. There were only ~2.6 million men aged 15 to 30 and another 3 million in their 30s back in 2022. Around 0.6-0.8 million Ukrainian men have left the country…

So how long do you think Ukraine can hold out if we extrapolate the casualties rates from the last 12-24 months or so? I wouldn't know because I don't have their numbers, and unlike you, I don't trust my offhand estimates. However I will trust the Ukrainians to know, and it seems safe to reason that the more and better arms they have -- the farther off the potential triggering of such a limit will be. The key conside…

> and unlike you, I don't trust my offhand estimates.

Yet you're fine with handwaving probably the biggest issue Ukraine is facing (besides the risk of losing western support/Trump winning the election and making a side-deal with Putin).

> However I will trust the Ukrainians to know,

The government probably does. Of course due to perfectly understandable reasons they will not share that information with the Ukrainian population at least until the war is over.

> while for Russia (as a country, apart from its leadership) it is very much optional

Hopefully. But underestimating the resilience of authoritarian/totalitarian regimes (compared to more free/democratic societies) isn't necessarily particularly wise. e.g. the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s was just as senseless (from the perspective of both sides) and even more bloody yet it went on for 8 years with hardly any significant dissent in either country (besides the Kurds the Iraq).

The casualties and overall cost US sustained in the Vietnam war, especially if we adjust by the duration of both conflicts were almost miniscule compared to the cost the Russian society is seemingly willing to pay.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#369

Post by gryfft »

phil21 wrote: post #180
vegadw wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What frustrates me is that, it seems (Read as: the following is just my vibe) that the majority of 3rd places left are religious in nature, but I, personally, don't want to be religious or raise children that are. There are some options, of course, but they're limited and often of poor quality, at least locally. Libraries are trying to adapt to fill this gap, and maker spaces spring up but most don't have funding to…

The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. I am no fan of religion having grown up in an exceedingly religious environment. But it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on. We seem to be doing it w…

> it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on.

In the religious community I grew up in, the idea that the purpose of the church was "community" was loudly vilified. There was an active purism regarding sincerity of belief and the centricity faith should have in one's life.

Of course, one can see how cult-like devotion and suppression of dissent are conducive to social cohesion, but as a young adult, I only wanted to get away from an environment that stymied my mind and spirit, and that feeling writ large has shuttered churches, I think.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#370

Post by amelius »

ryu2k2 wrote: post #47
amelius wrote: post #13

Not everything can/should be solved with technology, but would it be possible to get that sense of community back using e.g. VR and perhaps AI? (Research might also be useful for space missions)

Sounds like you're proposing the Matrix. No thanks.

This is not new. People are getting cured from anxiety disorders using VR all the time. E.g. arachnophobia, fear of flying.
Post reply on HN