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Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam Altman made openAI possible. A true CEO like Satya knows without Sam, the rate of progress at OpenAI will be determined by decels like Helen/Jan aka ZERO. It's a disaster for product development, especially when you have openly invited Google to dance. I know HN leans engineering/safety/reliability/labor/pedantic (like chasing the absolute truth), but at the end of the day, company scales from the likes of Jobs/M…

This isn't lying about product philosophy, lying about your financial stake in an OpenAI VC group would be grounds for dismissal from any company.

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it might be time to turn back the clock a bit and revisit some of the things pg said way back when he was pitching Sam Altman to lead YC and the general reaction was "...who?" 2008: "You could parachute [Sam Altman] into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without the…

> amoral wealth-hoarders They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested , i.e. put to work creating things that people want. > moralists ... capitalists History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets). Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must h…

With extreme inequity, who's gonna make all the smaller bets?

Lost in the food fight over today's robberbarons is recognition that small and medium new business formation continues to decline.

IMHO, those are the job creators and wealth creation (vs mere wealth transfer) I prefer we boosted. I trust billionaires will somehow muddle along with or without our help.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#363
post #75

I think there is a very good chance this is true, but it also paints the picture of the board being incompetent and incapable of confrontation. They could have filed formal complaints, mandated increased scrutiny, handed off Sam's responsibilities to other people, or threatened legal action. Instead, they attempted a secret coup, which of course makes Sam look like the underdog

> They could have filed formal complaints, mandated increased scrutiny, handed off Sam's responsibilities to other people, or threatened legal action. I think you fundamentally misunderstand the role of the board of directors. It's often been said that the board (of any company) has basically one job: to hire (and fire) the CEO. While that may be a slight exaggeration, the wisdom behind that quote is that things turn…

This precisely correct. The board hires & fires the CEO. End of story. When the board is unhappy how the company is being run, their recourse is to...fire the CEO. What is unusual here is the wellspring of support from "the troops", such that if they stuck with their firing the CEO, there would be hardly any company left to be BoD of! The board didn't understand the depth of employee allegiance to sama.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity would prefer no cigarette companies but sure, Philip Morris employees and shareholders would love to still have it. Remember that "OpenAI’s mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence (AGI) benefits all of humanity." If their for-profit arm is obstructing that...

Look if you think the whole company should be shutdown, then say that. But don't pretend like any of the employees are going to go along with that. Just admit that the goal is to actively sabotage the company and shut it all down. Then, all those employees can understand what you want, and they can go work for Microsoft instead, doing the exact same job that they were doing before, but now without the board sabotagin…

First, my statement was a hypothetical that shows its fairly obvious in the abstract that just because a group's activity is beneficial to themselves doesn't mean humanity needs to tolerate it, if it's at the expense of everyone else. Hello cartels, carbon emissions, etc.

When it comes to this specific case, the board did not think the mission of "AGI benefiting humanity" warranted shutting the company down. (they believe that being in the lead is better steering than Google / FB / etc.) But they also believed that Sama was sabotaging the safety aspects that would lead to the better steering of AGI for humanity.

The board expected people to have joined OpenAI in support of the mission but Sama sabotaged that with the $1m+ pay packages that meant these people prioritized their personal wealth. The Google founders had talked about how hard it was to ignore financial incentives, a majority of employees were in uproar every time the stock flatlined for too long.

Board's priorities: some group having the best chance of AGI benefiting humanity > Company shutting down > OpenAI makes humanity worse via AGI

The employees should've understand what the OpenAI mission and board's duty was the moment they joined the company. If this wasn't one of the first topics in interviews, then Sam sabotaged the company's mission.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it might be time to turn back the clock a bit and revisit some of the things pg said way back when he was pitching Sam Altman to lead YC and the general reaction was "...who?" 2008: "You could parachute [Sam Altman] into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without the…

> amoral wealth-hoarders They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested , i.e. put to work creating things that people want. > moralists ... capitalists History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets). Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must h…

> History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets).

Adam Smith saw "Theory of Moral Sentiments" as the foundation of his later work on "Wealth of Nations", right? ie that morals were a necessary prerequisite to markets etc.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#368
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all very generous. Who actually needs greater than 90% of the startups coming out of Silicon Valley and the surrounding areas? Their products just get hyped up and shoved down peoples' throat. And you're wrong. These people do have cash vaults, but they're other peoples' cash vaults. How else do you think they buy things? And they're living in their multi-million dollar mansions and yachts out of benevolence?…

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> Do look up who Walter Bright is

Stupid arguments are stupid, regardless of who said them. And, success doesn't make one right.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#369

So we now have a lying psychopath in charge of the most advanced AI, and no safety team to blow a whistle. I don't think legal restrictions on AI or AI research are plausible, but perhaps we should have some licensing and psychological, ethical requirements for people owning and directing AI development.

Luckily LLMs seems quite limited and are far away from AGI.
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