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Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#361

Post by JR1427 »

_yb2s wrote: post #239

I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... most of my childhood friends don't seem to do anything fun now as adults. I really love physical things I can do with my body as a counterbalance to working on the computer- weight lifting, woodworking, and sailing add a lot of value to my life, and have gotten me outdoors and in shape. I'm currently building a wood sailboat in my garage together with m…

I just can't help but pick up projects, and these really keep me going. I suppose I crave satisfaction much more than relaxation.

I find it very hard to relax by just chilling on a beach, or reading a book in the afternoon. I just want to work on a project.

What I find really fun is that often when I'm working on a project, my 5 year old daughter will get in to a project mindset herself, and will be working on her own thing (sticky tape, cardboard, etc), while I'm fixing a bicycle or building something. It's a really fun companionable time, where we're both working on our own thing, but in each other's company.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#362

Post by _yb2s »

underlipton wrote: post #337
_yb2s wrote: post #239

I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... most of my childhood friends don't seem to do anything fun now as adults. I really love physical things I can do with my body as a counterbalance to working on the computer- weight lifting, woodworking, and sailing add a lot of value to my life, and have gotten me outdoors and in shape. I'm currently building a wood sailboat in my garage together with m…

>I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... If the prerequisites for having awesome hobbies are, "Having a garage," "Inheriting tools from one's grandparents," and "Having the time do something with both," there would be your answer.

There are tons of hacker labs, maker spaces, community colleges, etc. that have woodworking courses and materials in shared places available for cheap or free. The old tools I have are outdated and undesirable. They could be found for under $100 on Craigslist (or more likely free), and fit against the back wall of a 1 car garage- I can still park a car in there and use them in front of the car. My entire "shop" area is smaller than a regular dinner table or workdesk, and I have to shuffle things around and reconfigure the entire space each time I switch tools. For example, I have a table saw that is also the only workbench, and I have a drill press bolted on top of it, so it takes 10-15 minutes to actually clear the saw to make a single cut. I am also a single parent with a high stress/demanding job and my free time is limited- I've been building a very small 6' dinghy with my son for almost a year, and we're only 1/3rd of the way done but we're having fun.

I actually felt a little stupid accepting these tools and setting up a space for them, when I later realized that I already had free access to several local community woodshops through a few different mechanisms... I am thinking about getting rid of some or all of the tools and using those instead.

I think it's pretty easy to make excuses for why something is impossible, but if people really wanted to, almost anyone could do it. The average teenager in the USA buys themselves single outfits of clothing that cost more than the basics to get into woodworking. Most Americans have streaming and Amazon Prime subscriptions that cost a lot more than I spend on woodworking- and I don't have any subscriptions like that.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#363

Post by throw0101b »

hervature wrote: post #358
lolinder wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How well one does it does not necessarily come into consideration, as long as there is enjoyment. Indeed, the Olympics is technically supposed to be an event for amateurs, while also being generally perceived as the peak of competition for each relevant sport.

The Olympics were originally meant to be an event for amateurs but that shift happened a long time ago. The IOC in 1986 let the individual sports federations make a ruling on whether pros were allowed. I think the only sports left for amateurs are wrestling and boxing.

> The IOC in 1986 let the individual sports federations make a ruling on whether pros were allowed.

And then you have NBA players on the Olympic team:

* https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/lebron-curry-durant-embiid-...

See also NHL/MLB players.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#364

Post by Kon-Peki »

IshKebab wrote: post #137
bmj wrote: post #73

>I went through those stages too: when the Agile meetings at my last job got so absurd that we were being asked to estimate JIRA task time in T-shirt sizes Oh, boy, I can relate. Every three months, I think our program increment planning meetings can't get more ridiculous and, yet, they do. Most recently, we were told that we should just treat story points as days of effort.

I don't think t-shirt sizes is absurd. It's one of the few good ways that really conveys "we have only a very vague idea how long this will take". Story points are dumb because they always are just a bad proxy for time. Really though, the right solution is time plus confidence . Instead of "4 days" it should be "1-8 days" or whatever. Unfortunately a large number of people simply can't comprehend this, and also no to…

> Really though, the right solution is time plus confidence. Instead of "4 days" it should be "1-8 days" or whatever.

It's a half-assed reimplementation of PERT charts, which were invented in the 1950s and used successfully for many decades, until everyone decided that everything old is terrible.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#365

Post by JR1427 »

underlipton wrote: post #337
_yb2s wrote: post #239

I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... most of my childhood friends don't seem to do anything fun now as adults. I really love physical things I can do with my body as a counterbalance to working on the computer- weight lifting, woodworking, and sailing add a lot of value to my life, and have gotten me outdoors and in shape. I'm currently building a wood sailboat in my garage together with m…

>I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... If the prerequisites for having awesome hobbies are, "Having a garage," "Inheriting tools from one's grandparents," and "Having the time do something with both," there would be your answer.

In my opinion these are absolutely not prerequisites.

I built many things at my desk or the kitchen table in our flat with very simple tools. Even a single Swiss Army knife can be used to achieve a lot. And you don't need a lot of time to make small things.

It can be easy to be jealous of the DIY YouTubers with massive workshops (I'm jealous!), but I find it more satisfying to take inspiration from the kinds of simple things people make/made in simpler societies/civilisations.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#366

Post by gknoy »

probably_wrong wrote: post #311
jimbokun wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you choose to add whitespace to your code is not a meaningful outlet for creativity. Linters are a great tool for eliminating bike shedding. I don't think wood working per se gives you more flexibility than building software. It's wood working as an individual, not part of a team, so you can make your own decisions and not answer to anyone. If you were a one man software consultant you would have the same amount…

> How you choose to add whitespace to your code is not a meaningful outlet for creativity. I'd like to mildly disagree. Using whitespace to group functionality together in "paragraphs" and aligning the horizontal indentation in the clearest possible way is not too far away from editing a short story to make it flow better. Earlier today my linter rearranged multiple "key: value" one-liners into two-liners and the end…

I normally just auto-apply `black` to my code, but occasionally I feel the need to have things arranged in a way that is easier to read -- e.g. a list of several dictionaries. In that case, I just put a comment telling it to stop reformatting at the start of the block, and another at the end.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#367

Post by JR1427 »

WillAdams wrote: post #330
jimbokun wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it more Geeks who enjoyed shop class, but went into software because it paid more? (I'm the Geek who hated shop class, and thank my locking stars I can make a living writing software, decades later.)

No, given the naïveté with which "Makers" approach things, they don't seem to have had real shop-class experience, or at least not a sensible class which actually taught anything meaningful.

What?! You mean 3d printing is not always the right answer?

Shocking!

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#368

Post by levinb »

ne8il wrote: post #332
colecut wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you inherited woodworking tools from your grandfather, I'm assuming that either your grandfather or father taught you some woodworking skills? I grew up on the computer since I was a preteen. My dad moved 2000 miles away when I was 11. Every job I've ever had since I was 14 was web/software related and I am nearly 39. I feel like I have no practical skills outside of computers and the idea of building things with…

You can download a book called "The Anarchist's Tool Chest" by Christopher Schwarz free as a PDF here: https://lostartpress.com/products/the-anarchists-tool-chest You can also download his follow-up, "The Anarchist's Design Book", free here: https://lostartpress.com/products/the-anarchists-design-book Between those two, they will teach you what tools you need and how to build simple furniture by hand. Start small.

Just chiming in to say your link led me to the document. The introduction is fantastic. I'm in the middle of an enormous woodworking undertaking and I am gonna have to hit pause and read this book. Completely nerd-sniped; other lurkers beware this rabbit hole.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#369

Post by sandspar »

gspencley wrote: post #230
sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

I'm one of those creative types. I have woodworking shop, I'm a musician, my wife and I are part-time performing magicians. I've only ever worked for small start-ups. Including my own which paid the bills for 15 years. Working for start-ups does not solve the problem for me. The problem for me is that I need to give a shit about WHAT I'm creating. And I find that after 25 years of working in the tech industry profess…

As an aside, high skill and low excitement is a great recipe for composure. It makes me think of a veteran I once knew. He once talked us out of a sticky situation because seeing his calm demeanor, the authority figures had no reason to suspect we were up to something.
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