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Why is it so hard to build an airport?

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Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#361

Post by cbhl »

pbsladek wrote: post #113
po wrote: post #30

If you fly into Tokyo you might come in via Narita Airport (NRT) which is actually quite a distance out from tokyo. Violence is extremely uncommon in modern Japan but NRT was the site of violent resistance over several decades. Opposition forces killed several police officers, rioted on several occasions and constructed a giant 200 ft tower to interfere with test flights. Hundreds of acts of vandalism have occurred o…

If flying into NRT and on the way to Tokyo, ~$200ish for the taxi ride. Ooops.

If you want to pay ~$200 and get to Tokyo faster, you should fly into HND instead of NRT, full stop.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#362

Post by RajT88 »

This seems to be referring only to large international airports.

Wikipedia lists 383 airports in the US, only 30 of which are "large". None of the muni airports are on the list. There's so many of those! I can think of 5 within a short drive of my home; there's got to be thousands in the US.

So, no shit building big noisy busy things on huge plots of land is hard! NIMBYism scales.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#363

Post by renewiltord »

balderdash wrote: post #358

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

Why wouldn’t you? It’s a land arb. You get cheaper land then use political power to raise its desirability. Common trick.

You can do it a few ways. Get a place near a nightclub then force the club to shut down. Almost certainly they have some regulation they’re not following.

Same with schools etc. Or sometimes the city will be planning an affordable housing thing on a lot. No one likes that so you’ll get the homes next door for cheaper. Then you can lobby for the place to become a park. Boom! Your home is now more valuable than it would be.

It’s just political arbitrage.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#364

Post by TulliusCicero »

bluGill wrote: post #347
TulliusCicero wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you discount Heathrow, Europe doesn't even have one in the top 10, whereas the US has 5 in the top 10. What a silly statement. "Europe doesn't have one in the top 10 if you remove its one entry in the top 10."

Considering population and size I'd expect more. It would be interesting to see what is different that they don't have more.

> Considering population and size I'd expect more.

London has like four major airports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airports_of_London

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#365

Post by balderdash »

subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

What’s comical is how hard it is to get to many urban US airports - why their isn’t the equivalent of the Heathrow express to serve New York city’s three airports is absurd

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#366

Post by TulliusCicero »

asdff wrote: post #309
TulliusCicero wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look east of the Mississippi, the overall population densities aren't really that bad, and should be able to support high speed rail easily. ...except for the fact that within metro areas, US cities are designed in a very sprawly way that's hostile to public transit. This is an entirely unforced error that has nothing to do with geography and everything to do with culture. We deliberately chose to make our cit…

A park and ride high speed rail system in those cities would probably stand on its own if it actually does save you time and cost.

Park and rides are somewhat of a stopgap measure. You really need walking/biking/bussing to rail to be effective last/first-mile options, in order for rail to be effective and popular too.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#367

Post by Symbiote »

monknomo wrote: post #201
Symbiote wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of that. Railways are relatively quiet and very useful, someone living near one will might well use it very frequently.

I have lived near a freight railway, and I assure you they are not quiet

I lived near several 80%-passenger railways in England, and they are not silent but they are quieter and less annoying than roads.

Most of the trains were electric, including the freight trains.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#368

Post by freeone3000 »

bombcar wrote: post #241
ghaff wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to travel pretty light but trains get inconvenient with any amount of luggage. I'm coming into NY by ship after a longish trip, continuing on home by train at the end of May. I came to the conclusion I should take advantage of a not too expensive luggage shipping service because dealing with the luggage was going to be just too big of a hassle.

That's a key if you want a "rail to plane" setup - if you do it right (read-nobody will do it) you check in for the train with your baggage and your flight at the same time, and give the bags over to a dedicated baggage car that handles everything for you.

Luggage tags can take a rail stop as a final destination. Integrate further! Have a person load the bags onto the train for you!

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#369

Post by egorfine »

mst wrote: post #291
perlgeek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport…

-I- would be entirely fine with an airport with those transit restrictions. mdk (Shadowcat's resident responsible adult / business person) however has three kids, and two adults trying to wrangle three children as well as luggage makes trains much, much less attractive as an option. So I think "fantastic to imagine, DOA as an idea in practice" applies, I'm afraid.

Taxi infrastructure is entirely plausible in a project with heavy restriction for private cars.

I.e. build all the roads you want but don't make long-term parkings available.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#370

Post by dylan604 »

acchow wrote: post #326
treflop wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is well known for violent political clashes. There is still a very obvious house in the middle of Narita Airport that you can see when flying in or out. There are roads to it underneath the airport.

This is shocking to me https://www.cbsnews.com/news/narita-airport-farm-takao-shito... "The best outcome would be for the airport to shut down," he said. "But what's important is to keep farming my ancestral land." I imagine most countries would just use eminent domain?

I wonder if all of the airport pollution and particulates adds any flavor to what is grown there
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