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jQuery v4.0 Beta

blog.jquery.com

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Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#361

Post by viraptor »

bmelton wrote: post #341
viraptor wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You normally want to see things locally as you develop them. Vercel is cool and all, but doing a git push and waiting for the build every time you want a refresh? Nah, that's not viable. And almost everything mentioned above for deployments applies to your own dev machine as well.

Why do you have to wait? It's fairly normal to run some version of `npm run serve` with a filesystem watcher that will hot-reload changes as they occur so that you can see changes every time you hit :w (or CMD+S or whatever saves a file on your filesystem)

The context is about the initial setup and the parent comment recommended vercel git flow. Yes, you can run it locally, but that's back to the "getting started" issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39286669

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#362

Post by hu3 »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #352
hu3 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. If we're talking about tech debt (that's not what parent was talking about by the way) then JS is a magnitude worse. Running old projects from JS ecosystem can require multiple miracles, not only code refactoring. And your example, codeigniter, is one of the worst examples in PHP. Not only it is a framework that has minor usage: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=codeigniter,larav... It is infamous for be…

Nobody said js wasn't worse, just that your experience is not the experience of most PHP upgrades. Saying Code Igniter is not used in a lot of places because of Google trends is wrong for a lot of reasons, but the biggest of which being your graph shows laravel and codeigniter neck and neck a decade ago. Who cares whether new projects are started in code igniter? PHP is mostly legacy apps, and there are other framewo…

> PHP let's people do really dumb ORM templating.

PHP has nothing to do with ORM problems. Any language allows dumb stuff related to ORM. Those are the libraries rather than the language.

PHP, like any language, has good and bad libraries.

If a project uses a bad solution for ORM, the language is not to blame.

I can do dumb ORM stuff in C#, Java, Rust, C++ and Python.

If a project picked a bad framework 10 years ago and now complains about the language instead of the framework I don't know what to tell you.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#363

Post by hombre_fatal »

anthonypasq wrote: post #320
heartbreak wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many React apps actually have an interface approaching the complexity of Figma or even Facebook? No one is arguing that complex web applications don’t benefit from React and friends. It’s completely overkill for most of the web.

why does everyone have this impression that people are using react to render a website that is 5 divs and some images, like where is this perception coming from? do you have any examples at all? any website that has any sort of meaningful functionality and communication with a server is mostly likely using some sort of framework.

Yeah, there's this whole meme on HN where React competes with hand-writing the HTML of your three-page brochure website, a website virtually nobody is building.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#364

Post by lizardking »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #363
anthonypasq wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does everyone have this impression that people are using react to render a website that is 5 divs and some images, like where is this perception coming from? do you have any examples at all? any website that has any sort of meaningful functionality and communication with a server is mostly likely using some sort of framework.

Yeah, there's this whole meme on HN where React competes with hand-writing the HTML of your three-page brochure website, a website virtually nobody is building.

A lot of marketing agency development is this sort of brochureware, and to your point they usually aren't using react.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#365

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

DrSiemer wrote: post #86
wkirby wrote: post #41

I'm consistently surprised by the commenters on HN who seem to think jQuery is just a DOM selection library, when in fact it is a widely supported, incredibly stable tool set for (yes) DOM selection, but also attribute manipulation, Ajax requests, event handling, animation, and general utility functions. What's more, where there _is_ native functionality that replaces jQuery, the API is never as fluent. For work that…

A few years ago I dropped jQuery for plain vanilla js and I've never looked back. Native js has everything jQuery has, except for the pile of often poorly maintained half baked "plugins", that usually only do what they want to do and not much else. Yes, the vanilla selectors are more verbose, but any half decent code editor will make them just as fast to type. I don't mean to be penantic, but I don't really understan…

> https://youmightnotneedjquery.com/

I'm convinced this site is actually satire and it designed to promote jQuery. In nearly every example, the native version is far more verbose.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#366

Post by Capricorn2481 »

hu3 wrote: post #362
Capricorn2481 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said js wasn't worse, just that your experience is not the experience of most PHP upgrades. Saying Code Igniter is not used in a lot of places because of Google trends is wrong for a lot of reasons, but the biggest of which being your graph shows laravel and codeigniter neck and neck a decade ago. Who cares whether new projects are started in code igniter? PHP is mostly legacy apps, and there are other framewo…

> PHP let's people do really dumb ORM templating. PHP has nothing to do with ORM problems. Any language allows dumb stuff related to ORM. Those are the libraries rather than the language. PHP, like any language, has good and bad libraries. If a project uses a bad solution for ORM, the language is not to blame. I can do dumb ORM stuff in C#, Java, Rust, C++ and Python. If a project picked a bad framework 10 years ago…

Then it sounds like we disagree on what the thread is about. When I hear "I updated PHP and everything broke" I think "because libraries break between version upgrades." You seem to be arguing against a position that people aren't taking, which is that there's something inherently wrong with PHP as a language that makes it break when upgraded (which nobody has said).

The same goes for Node, which doesn't break servers just because you upgrade it. I have updated from 12 to 20 with no problems because of the dependencies.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#367

Post by niutech »

panphora wrote: post #326
geenat wrote: post #278

Awesome. My problem is I've been waiting for 4.0 soooo long I ended up making my own jQuery with some key differences: * Animations, tweens, timelines use pure CSS, instead of jQuery's custom system. * Use one element or lists transparently. * Inline Locality of Behavior. No more inventing unique "one time" names. * Vanilla first. Zero dependencies. 1 file. Under 340 lines. https://github.com/gnat/surreal That said,…

I've always thought there should be a modern, lightweight jQuery alternative like this. Well done! I love the syntax and have been implementing something similar (although with inline events and more than just the standard array methods). [0] Do you have an article/screencast on how the locality of behavior is implemented in both surreal and its companion project css-scope-inline? I'd love to understand it so I can m…

> I've always thought there should be a modern, lightweight jQuery alternative like this.

Have you heard of Zepto? https://zeptojs.com

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#368

Post by panphora »

niutech wrote: post #367
panphora wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought there should be a modern, lightweight jQuery alternative like this. Well done! I love the syntax and have been implementing something similar (although with inline events and more than just the standard array methods). [0] Do you have an article/screencast on how the locality of behavior is implemented in both surreal and its companion project css-scope-inline? I'd love to understand it so I can m…

> I've always thought there should be a modern, lightweight jQuery alternative like this. Have you heard of Zepto? https://zeptojs.com

Yes, thank you! Zepto is great and it's nice it's jQuery compatible. I've used it before and liked it.

However, I guess I was thinking something a bit more modern -- adding more advanced functionality than what jQuery has. Like more array methods for elements (e.g. `pluck` elements based on property values), reactive data stores/templating, a mutation observer helper.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#369

Post by andrei_says_ »

QuadrupleA wrote: post #107
DrSiemer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I dropped jQuery for plain vanilla js and I've never looked back. Native js has everything jQuery has, except for the pile of often poorly maintained half baked "plugins", that usually only do what they want to do and not much else. Yes, the vanilla selectors are more verbose, but any half decent code editor will make them just as fast to type. I don't mean to be penantic, but I don't really understan…

Look at your own link - the "modern" way of doing it is always about 2-3x as verbose as jQuery. Editors let you type that mess faster, but you'll still have to read through it, maintain it, scroll it into view in your editor, see less of it onscreen at a time, etc. I'll take a clean, succinct API over a noisy verbose cumbersome one any day. And what are we saving by eschewing it and going vanilla? One little 30kb-gzi…

You just described why I use slim-lang in all of my projects. produces clean, correct HTML with zero noise.

Ends up eliminating 50-60% of the code, and the time for writing and reading it.

As for jquery I haven’t needed it much since stimulusjs but loved it whenever I used it.

Re: jQuery v4.0 Beta

#370

Post by DrSiemer »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #365
DrSiemer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I dropped jQuery for plain vanilla js and I've never looked back. Native js has everything jQuery has, except for the pile of often poorly maintained half baked "plugins", that usually only do what they want to do and not much else. Yes, the vanilla selectors are more verbose, but any half decent code editor will make them just as fast to type. I don't mean to be penantic, but I don't really understan…

> https://youmightnotneedjquery.com/ I'm convinced this site is actually satire and it designed to promote jQuery. In nearly every example, the native version is far more verbose.

It's just a random site I remembered from a long time ago, there are better ones out there. One of them convinced me that jQuery is just a crutch. I tried a small project without it and it really did not take long to adjust.

These days I find vanilla far easier to read and it is a lot more clear to me what is actually happening in the code.

Depending on jQuery limits your ability to work with code that does not use it. Ie a lot of the more professional libraries.

For me dropping jQuery feels like a step up. Why don't you just try it, see what happens. It's just a day of being a little bit annoyed and then you should be fine.

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