361–370 of 454 posts
I have personal wiki pages for companies, where I record things like interesting HN posts about them, notes about their products, and a log of recruiting interactions. All on one page. Were I to pull up this company's wiki page while talking with a recruiter, this video is like, on a first date, someone being rude to the waiter, while they smile at you. Strong signal about what they truly are. In this case, a stereot…
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> The employee admits having closed zero sales. You clearly have no experience in sales--especially enterprise sales. 1) No responsible sales organization is going to let a brand new hire alone with a client under 6 months. 2) You aren't selling shit to enterprise from Mid-November until after the first week of January. 3) She barely had a single quarter to get some company to add her to a budget and close a sale. No…
Do you think it's impossible to fire a sales person for performance reasons in under 6 months then?
Layoffs happen. Welcome to tech. Just say it's a layoff, and everybody will get on with life.
However, trying to fire someone for performance short of 12 months smells like somebody was told to try to claw back or limit signing bonuses, relocation allowances, stock grants, and promissory estoppel claims.
It's a VERY, VERY bad look for Cloudflare who, up to this point, I had decent vibes about from dealing with various employees.
Uploading a private conversation with HR to TikTok surely isn't going to help her job hunting. Prospective employers might view such behavior as a red flag... It might even be illegal given that the HR people are likely located in California, a "two-party consent" state.
Besides, it takes serious guts to do what she did. If CF were honest with her from the get go the video may not even exist. She will be able to find another job but the PR hit and lack of trust in this company will be more difficult to repair I suppose.
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> At will employment is a thing. You can terminate people with absolutely no reason if you want, most of the time. In which case fire them with no reason. If however you waive that choice and offer a specific reason then you probably should make the chosen reason true unless you want to be sued for wrongful dismissal.
You see? Damn if you do, damn if you don't. It's then better to just fire and give no motivation whatsoever.
Cloudflare lied. It’s plain and simple.
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You see? Damn if you do, damn if you don't. It's then better to just fire and give no motivation whatsoever.
Except this reason was most likely a fabrication due to the fact that they never communicated performance issues in the past. Cloudflare lied. It’s plain and simple.
Don't believe everything you see on the internet. Be smarter than that, form opinions based on as many facts as possible, not only partial, biased, information.
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> It's extremely asymmetrical, too. I’ve lived a very different culture than you in the U.S. - to the degree I’m surprised to see you express this sentiment. In days of yore, people gave notice. But then a meme policy of “don’t poison the well” did the rounds. Roughly, the philosophy went: when someone is leaving they can only do harm; they are leaving, they have a convincing reason for leaving, and you don’t want th…
That's horrible and very different from what I experienced in Switzerland. It's a concept in Swiss law that obligations are symmetrical, and the periods are quite long (three months, and not only for employment, but for other contracts as well, like renting). If you are dismissed on the spot, you'll get three months of pay. On the other hand, if you give or are given notice, you are sometimes expected to continue wor…
Once I was asked to continue interviewing candidates after I gave notice, which seemed a little odd at the time (also in Switzerland).
Put another way, IANAL, but isn't there a lot of grounds to sue here?
I get why Brittany's mad: Cloudflare appears to be handling this about as bad as possible. But those two HR randos aren't gonna have anything worthwhile to say, either. I don't want to be judgmental of Brittany because it's a sucky call to have to take. But my recommendation in this situation is to say "I disagree with that assessment of my performance, but I understand you are terminating my employment. What details…
I get that this type of situation is emotionally difficult, but advice for anyone willing to take it: if the point is getting information, a confrontational "you can't do this to me" type tone is probably less helpful than a curious "you owe me nothing but if you want to brighten my day a little here's what I'm curious about" attitude.
And Cloudflare... fuck. I mean, they won't even own up to the real reason they want to shed headcount. Tried to pass it off as being the employee's fault. So damn shady.
I liked Cloudflare but y'know... any chance I get to use something else, I'm going to take it. Way to tank their reputation with a 5-minute video.
All they had to do was say, "Yeah, we over-hired. Thanks for playing."
Instead... man... 0 respect for Cloudflare watching this.
A similar situation happened to me after 7.5 years at a company where I had been given consistently good feedback and promotions. I was fed the lie that my position was being eliminated when there were active public postings for the same position (Staff Engineer). My access to corporate systems was cut off at 8am with no warning or explanatio. I got a similar cold call from an HR person I had met once by chance. No i…
> Not being able to say goodbye to my coworkers I had known for years was emotionally traumatic. Since something similar happened to me (decades ago), I basically don’t socialize with coworkers anymore, i.e. there is no emotional investment.