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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#361

Post by abusada »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261
master_crab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong. But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter.

Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel (isn't it the promised land after all?).. but the main goal is to free the people from the oppressive occupation!

and when we chant "From the river to the sea" we don't mean to kill anyone! if we can be free and live together, but have dignity and human rights, so be it!

and like Bassem Youssef said, let's imagine a world where Hamas doesn't exist, and let's call it for example the west bank. how do you justify what's happening there and the settlements expansion?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#362

Post by roenxi »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261
master_crab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong. But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

> Supporting Hamas ... is anti-semitic

> https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

Then the Times of Israel is on the record with articles accusing Netanyahu of being anti-semitic. I don't think those things you list are anti-semitic - they just happen to be politically bad for Jews right now. There is a difference (an important one) between policies-bad-for-a-group and being motivated by an unreasonable hatred of a group.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#363

Post by aprilthird2021 »

proc0 wrote: post #225
incrudible wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

It's because on the surface it's an interracial conflict (it's not really, I guess, but that is the perception for most), and lots of people are obsessed over racial dynamics and analyzing history through that lens. There are so many other conflicts going on with many more dead, but if it's not interracial then somehow it is not talked about.

[flagged]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#364

Post by bjourne »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Clips of bodies being buried in mass graves, of corpses with maggot-infested wounds, of limbs scattered in shopping bags, of children screaming in terror as their city blocks gets bombed, or of soldiers stripping civilians naked are not "pro-Palestinian" per se. But they show the terrible brutality of this "war". That may cause people with some empathy and with hearts not cold as stone to demand an end to the terror. That is "pro-Human" not "pro-Palestinian".

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#365

Post by wolverine876 »

bushbaba wrote: post #359
wolverine876 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

From the river to the sea is the entirety of Israel plus Gaza/west bank of landmass. Then calling Palestine shall be free is a call to end the state of Israel. hopefully Oct 7th should demonstrate what that means, which is indiscriminately killing of all Israeli civilians. If you doubt it ask a few Palestinians what would happen to the Jews living in the area if “Palestine is free”.

That repeats the claim - I'm aware of it from the GGP comment and of course from other public discussion. What I'm looking for is evidence of the claim from reliable sources.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#366

Post by peter422 »

submeta wrote: post #342
jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Well, that’s not a fair comparison. Palestinians may have a lot of muslims on their side, but the whole western world—-or more precisely: their media and people in power—-fully support anything Israel does. No consequences. Au contraire: Looking at Germany for instance, anyone remotely criticising Israel for even gross violations of international human rights or Geneva Conventions (for instance for withholding water,…

Many in the US government have been critical of Israel’s strategy in the last week or so (Lloyd Austin, etc).

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#367

Post by dragonwriter »

paulddraper wrote: post #301
dragonwriter wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok Judging this by the method used (counts of uses of top 5 hashtags associated with the conflict) is ludicrously bad as a methodology, because, aside from not looking at sentiment, its prone to being radically wrong if one side is more consistent in hashtag use than the other.

What's the more correct way?

I'm not sure the design of these platforms exposes one to researchers, but the absense of a better method doesn't reinforce conclusions based on a defective method.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#368

Post by aprilthird2021 »

ristlane wrote: post #183
Scubabear68 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not holding them to a higher standard. Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome. The Hamas attack was unprecedented and horrific. I don’t know that it justifies declaring all out war on and entire city. I can say that without being anti-Semitic.

Hamas is hiding among civilians. I don’t want innocent people to be hurt, but their use of human shields is simply the standard playbook in this type of warfare. Hamas rationally wants Gazan civilians to be nearby and indistinguishable from combatants.

The IDF HQ is in a heavily populated part of Tel Aviv. If a country dropped an enormous bomb on it which flattened nearby civilian homes and populations, would it be okay because the IDF is "hiding" among civilians? The IDF also literally used human shields until 2005 when it was banned (and a bit more afterwards trying not to get caught), so is it okay to kill ~20000 Israeli civilians as a result of that?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#369

Post by skitout »

incrudible wrote: post #141
Scubabear68 wrote: post #91

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

" The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? "

- Jerusalem (and more globally Israel and Palestine) is holly for Jews, Muslims and Christians ; more than half of the word population and more than 90% of US population

- Israel is a key ally of the USA, and this is a topic important in US politics for long time - including for some evangelical voters for religious question

- Westerners have colonized (or inflicted violence to) most of the non western countries on this planet in "recent" history... Israel is seen by some as a Western country colonizing just another developing country, with support of other western countries... echoing recent history for many. It is as such a symbol for a long time.

- USA, France... have had some big Islamist attack, what happened in Israel echoed to this for some people... and echoes to the clash of civilization western word vs Muslim which is central in the ideology of a growing number of westerners

- It is easier to understand, more divisive, with more people or causes we can identify with, than in Syria (everybody hates ISIS) or Yemen (arabs fighting arabs fighting other arabs in a desert ?)... And we have more images

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#370

Post by mandmandam »

quonn wrote: post #329
hypeit wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, when capital coordinates people get worried and rightfully so. There are a lot of non Jewish Zionists, just as there are a lot of Jewish non-Zionists. In our industry, the VCs are overwhelmingly Zionist while the rest of the industry is non-Zionist and it's the Zionists that are getting people fired and blacklisted.

[flagged]

https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1733146138226614465

Plenty of examples wrapped up in a short well sourced tweet. Enjoy.

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