Live data from Hacker News

Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

nytimes.com

361–370 of 1001 posts

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#361

Well... this is justice. Sadly, we don't get to see justice very often. This is life in prison, correct? I know he hasn't been sentenced but all counts is easily several life sentences at the federal level. When do the parents go on trial? I can't see how they make it out of this without at least having all their ill-begotten assets stripped.

Have all of the people scammed been brought whole? That would be justice. Someone sitting in jail isn't justice. It is punishment for his actions. I've never understood how someone being incarcerated has become considered justice.

>Have all of the people scammed been brought whole?

Can you ever make them whole? Even if you pay them back all their money, there is the period of time without, the fear and pain from losing it, and similar that cannot be undone. For other crimes, there is often a victim whose state can never be fully reverted. If this is our view of justice, then justice becomes an impossible thing which can never be achieved. Does such a stance risk people eventually no longer chasing what can never be acquired?

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#362

For anyone curious, Ken White has a good and entertaining article breaking down maximum sentences in print (here, 110 years) and what people actually serve. It's worth a read: https://www.popehat.com/2013/02/05/crime-whale-sushi-sentenc... A takeaway: "1. Maximum sentences have very little relation to actual sentences in federal law. When the government quotes the maximum sentence, they are trying to scare you. When…

The opposite thing is going to happen in this case, and I'm sure you'll hear Ken on Serious Trouble saying the same thing next week (you can get Andrew McCarthy, another former AUSA, saying the same thing in the National Review today if you want that with a dash of anti-woke conservative racial politics). In basic economic crimes, sentences scale primarily with dollar losses, and FTX lost billions. He's going to do something resembling the statutory max, and then only if statutory limits take life off the table.

The whale sushi article is excellent and is a good intuition for most white collar crimes. You run into the big exception in these ultra-high-dollar cases like Theranos and FTX, because of the 2B1.1(b)(1) dollar loss chart.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking online I see reports that FTX owes its creditors $3B. If Anthropic has 6.5x then the initial $500 million is now worth $3.25B. Is it actually possible that all creditors will get their money back? Pretty crazy if so.

If I'm a creditor in FTX, it's a pretty big gamble, and I'm definitely not sure I'd be willing to settle for "sure, give me some shares in some AI company...". A significant chance that value craters, after all.

you would settle for cash after the FTX trustees sell those shares on private secondary markets

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#366
post #317
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, there's a significant market right now for purchasing FTX claims precisely because of this Anthropic investment. The bet is that you can buy the FTX claim for 35 or 40 cents on the dollar, and get 75 or 80 cents on the dollar if the Anthropic value gets unlocked during the bankruptcy process.

could you show us how to look up this info? its fascinating and as a financially savvy trader i'm surprised i was never taught this in business school

Buying a creditor’s claim is nothing new.

But they’re usually a bad deal for the unfortunate creditor in a bankruptcy unless you absolutely positively need liquid cash immediately. Or have some non-public info that suggests the claims buyer is way overvaluing things.

General advice is to let your claim ride.

FTX’s bankruptcy filings are full of entries about transfers of creditor claims by some random hedge funds.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#367
post #330

I liked the article detailing how poorly he did on the stand: https://www.thefp.com/p/humiliating-cross-examination-sam-ba... “Did you say in private, ‘Fuck regulators?’ ” “Did you call some customers ‘dumb motherfuckers?’ ” “Did you fly to the Super Bowl in a private plane?” “Most FTX customers did not have a line of credit, correct?” “Do you deny that Alameda had a $65 billion line of credit?” And on, and on, and o…

With or without testifying he cut a remarkably unlikeable figure. Smug, aloof, arrogant and condescending, honestly much more so than a typical white collar defendant. I suppose his fatal flaw, though was not having anyone else to blame.

>though was not having anyone else to blame.

Oh, he definitely had people to blame, like the FTX lawyers, it’s just that he got caught lying or dancing around the truth so frequently that nobody would believe him.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#369

Well... this is justice. Sadly, we don't get to see justice very often. This is life in prison, correct? I know he hasn't been sentenced but all counts is easily several life sentences at the federal level. When do the parents go on trial? I can't see how they make it out of this without at least having all their ill-begotten assets stripped.

> this is justice

Meh. This is society taking revenge on an individual by locking him up and offering him no chance for redemption. Maybe that's the best form of "justice" we can do for now, but let's not celebrate it too much.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#370

[flagged]

I haven't heard about this, can you elaborate on this?

Second biggest individual Democratic donor in 2022 midterms was Sam Bankman Fried after the foreigner George Soros:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/biggest-donors-2022-midterm...

Post reply on HN