Dianne Feinstein has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#361

Post by bombcar » Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 11:26 PM UTC

flagrant_taco wrote: post #168

bombcar wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we've seen is term limits just result in the "party machine" really running the seat, as the warm body is replaced time and time again. Term limits are effective against populists, for whatever that's worth.

Term limits definitely come with very real tradeoffs. I'd argue, though, that if the machine is that corrupt it doesn't matter what we do with politicians. What you're describing sounds to me like the politicians are inconsequential puppets and the machine must be limited or removed. I could a tuallg get behind that idea, it wouldn't take much to convince me that term limits don't go after the real problem.

My general lean is toward subsidiarity - decisions should be made at the lowest possible level.

This is somewhat inefficient but it also minimizes major problems.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#362

Post by flagrant_taco » Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 11:51 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #361

flagrant_taco wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Term limits definitely come with very real tradeoffs. I'd argue, though, that if the machine is that corrupt it doesn't matter what we do with politicians. What you're describing sounds to me like the politicians are inconsequential puppets and the machine must be limited or removed. I could a tuallg get behind that idea, it wouldn't take much to convince me that term limits don't go after the real problem.

My general lean is toward subsidiarity - decisions should be made at the lowest possible level. This is somewhat inefficient but it also minimizes major problems.

I'd argue that gridlock is a feature not a bug. Hamilton even said as much in the Federalist papers when acknowledging that the model of a three-branch government can be slow and inefficient compared to a one or two branch model.

I think this gets a bit further down the road than my original goal of a quick solution that could be implemented now for some benefit, but yeah I'd love to see power pushed as far down the hierarchy as possible.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#363

Post by flagrant_taco » Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 11:54 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #177

ianbutler wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about the US presidency in that case?

Term limits should for the presidency should probably have been left as a "gentleman's agreement" and not codified in an amendment just because politicians were pissed at the people continually electing Roosevelt.

I'm not familiar enough with the motivations behind that specific amendment. I could see it having been an increased concern over people being okay with ignoring the gentleman's agreement, but a political tit for tat with Roosevelt would also track.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#364

Post by RhysU » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 3:26 AM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #21

bhouston wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are age limits viable in our aging population? I think they may not work because it would exclude so many people and many voters will be aged as well? I think a low bar competency test would be more viable.

Politicians make up a tiny percentage of the population and babies haven't stopped being born at any point, so there will always be a population under 65 from which to elect people. If voters over 65 feel left out because they can't vote for someone their age bracket, I don't know what to tell them except "welcome to the party".

Weird SciFi idea: The human race is dying after such an amendment passes. The US Constitution finally crumbles because there is no one under 65 left in the country, making it ungovernable due to amendment ratification requirements.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#365

Post by alphabettsy » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 5:01 AM UTC

pierat wrote: post #313

SamPatt wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe this - and even advocate for change - then I watched my children become teenagers. There is truth to the idea that, whether due to life experience or brain development, teenagers struggle with proper decision-making. I don't like the arbitrary nature of age cutoffs, but I would no longer support the idea of giving more political power to anyone under 18.

Then why is anyone under 18 charged in criminal court as adults? If you get ages can be seen to have the same legal cognitive patters as an adult, why shouldn't they also have the same rights as an adult?

I don’t believe they should be.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#366

Post by alphabettsy » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 5:03 AM UTC

firebat45 wrote: post #205

alphabettsy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing a child to someone in their 70s with a lifetime of experience is silly. Maybe there should be limits once in office at a certain age, but not everyone ages the same.

Having a lifetime of experience does not necessarily make someone smart, rational, or even coherent. It especially does not make someone interested in voting for changes that will improve the lives of people younger than them.

That’s why we have elections. Being youthful doesn’t imply any of those things either and guarantees limited experience. I’m not arguing that young people shouldn’t be in office. I’m just not sure an arbitrary age limit is appropriate either.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#367

Post by alphabettsy » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 5:05 AM UTC

schnebbau wrote: post #219

alphabettsy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing a child to someone in their 70s with a lifetime of experience is silly. Maybe there should be limits once in office at a certain age, but not everyone ages the same.

My father is in his 70s and can barely remember what he had for breakfast. He should not be representing anyone, or even voting for that matter. There's no way to separate the able minded from the seniles fairly, so an age limit is the best way to do it.

> There's no way to separate the able minded from the seniles fairly, so an age limit is the best way to do it.

Sorry about your father, but there are plenty of 70 year olds who are extremely competent, capable and that also bring valuable connections and experience.

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#368

Post by pauldenton » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 8:36 AM UTC

cableshaft wrote: post #43

bhouston wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I lean left more than right, we should probably also include Biden in that list. That guy is highly managed by his staff.

This is true of pretty much every high profile figure in Washington. They all have staff that manage a lot of the day to day operations. Could be a bit more true of Biden, I don't know, but I doubt it's significantly more than other high profile figures or other presidents.

Trump had handlers. They just wish Trump would do what they said like the other politicians

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#369

Post by pauldenton » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 8:42 AM UTC

banannaise wrote: post #95

flagrant_taco wrote: post #77

I know the easy approach here is for people to want an age limit in Congress, but I've always been more partial to a term limit. I'm sure there are plenty of hypotheses as to why this happens, but whatever the cause elected officials seem to have an extremely easy go of getting re-elected these days. The increasing average age in Congress is just a side effect of that in my opinion.

The problem with term limits is that they don't apply to lobbyists. Lobbyists basically writing most of the legislation is already a major problem, and it becomes worse when all the representatives are new to the office.

Lobbyists are just part of it. The revolving door means politicians can become lobbyists when they hit their term limit and lobbyists can become politicians where there is an opening. Amakudari is what Japan has, the so called descent from heaven. They fixed the revolving door by making it go one way. Government officials retire to lucrative corporate jobs in their retirement, but they can never get back in to Heaven

Re: Dianne Feinstein has died

#370

Post by nvm0n2 » Sat, Sep 30, 2023, 9:59 AM UTC

matt-attack wrote: post #234

iambateman wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem with RCV is that it doesn't intuitively make sense to an average person. I wrote a web app for RCV and spent months trying to build a user experience that would help people understand the concept and it just doesn't work. People come to the question of voting assuming it's easy to understand...We've never had to deal with complexity around the concept so we expect it to be simple. Introducing an algo…

How is it hard to explain: please put these names in a row from best to worst.

It's the way this leads to a specific outcome that's hard to explain.