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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A scenario I have encountered many times is having someone doing work for me, they don't bring some basic safety gear like earplugs or masks. I have plenty of earplugs and masks though. Buy I can never get them to actually use them. They'd rather hear that jackhammer at full volume apparently? As a musician, it especially kills me to watch people destroy their ears. These workers are often too young to appreciate goo…

Why does music volume, not just get reduced to safe level?

Jackhammer and the Pneumatics ft. Tiler McDiamondSaw can only be played with the volume set to 11. If you turn it down, the music stops.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#362
post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

Of my favourite books. Thank you for the reminder to read it again :-)

To those who didn't read it - it is a rather short novel, uncannily funny, scary, and most of all - revealing of how human societies actually work. This is one of the earlier Pelevin's works, so the style is still illustrious. Some jokes might not be immediately transparent as they are contextualized in the late USSR.

Correction: it is scary in the cthonic/transcendent sense, not that it is spooky (it's not at all).

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#363
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if you employ peoples to do a job with a such a risk to their lives, IMO it's your responsibility to ensure that protection is used not just provided.

It’s often not that easy. Would you fire someone who you knew was on the verge of being evicted, or a single parent trying to support their children? What about when the employees are unionized, and the union takes the side of the non-compliant laborers?

? Yes it's not easy and so what ? If it's too hard don't employ people ...

But in this case I believe things should be easier since IMO a violation of this level of safety standard should risk bankrupting your company.

So your choice become to keep employing someone who can't follow basic regulation to save his life and risk the job of everyone else or just fire him (not as hard no ?). And I might be a bit optimistic but in this scenario I would expect that the union might not support him as much.

And I made only a quick search but the scenario where union would protect safety violation appear to be less probable. Since at least regarding OSHA violations : https://blog.dol.gov/2022/05/11/the-connection-between-union...

> based on publicly reported OSHA data found that union worksites are 19% less likely to have an OSHA violation and had 34% fewer violations per OSHA inspection than non-union worksites.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#364
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if you employ peoples to do a job with a such a risk to their lives, IMO it's your responsibility to ensure that protection is used not just provided.

It’s often not that easy. Would you fire someone who you knew was on the verge of being evicted, or a single parent trying to support their children? What about when the employees are unionized, and the union takes the side of the non-compliant laborers?

> Would you fire someone who you knew was on the verge of being evicted, or a single parent trying to support their children?

People make their own decisions how to behave and need to own them. Allowing important things to slide like health and safety matters is unacceptable.

> What about when the employees are unionized, and the union takes the side of the non-compliant laborers?

Start a new company and wind down the old one, transferring over existing customers.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#365

One of the frustrating things about modernity as a westerner is that I don't feel the need for the standard of living that all of these incredible-but-dangerous advances in modern science and technology have granted us. I don't need faux-stone counters cut by Central Americans, I don't to eat as varied a diet as is available, I don't need to travel anywhere over 45 mph or internationally, I don't need A/C on 95% of s…

Some of those things are fads, other are useful things. Some things you cook work better one some counters (my current marble is great for rolling out scones, for everything else cheap Formica is just as good). A varied diet is more interesting (to me!), and probably provides better nutrients (I have no idea what you eat). I don't need to travel 45mph, but my time is valuable so I want to travel 450,000mph on all trips (without all the annoying physics effects from that speed).

What you can do is live the life you want. Many people talk like you, but never make changes in their own life. A few do make such choices, and many after 10 years realize they didn't actually want the things they did and return to modern life.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#366

I worked in a countertop factory around 25 years ago and every single tool/station used wet cutting. Why on earth would workers be doing this work without water?

You can always find someone willing to do it cheaper, though to their credit they seem to use water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhhlcOix4TQ

More fun stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I0IAwOIwXo

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#367

the incurable disease in the title is greed in the hearts of others that values the lives of these people less than the shiny things they make for rich people

There won't be anyone left after 10 years of culling: > It finds that each year homeowners remodel upwards of 10.2 million kitchens — roughly one in 10 of all households — and 14.2 million bathrooms, two of the most important rooms in a home. Further, annual new home construction adds roughly 1 million kitchens and 2.3 million bathrooms to the marketplace National Kitchen + Bath Association (NKBA)

Some people remodel more than others. I've seen kitchens that haven't changed since 1950 (including some things that we always unsafe). I've seem people who remodel their kitchen every 3 years. 10 is average, but there are outliers in every average. There will be a lot left in 15 years, but very few in 50 years.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#368
post #334

the incurable disease in the title is greed in the hearts of others that values the lives of these people less than the shiny things they make for rich people

quartz countertops are popular because they are cheaper than other types of countertops while looking expensive. this is like the Shein of counters. wealthy people probably use natural stone.

Quartz countertops are more expensive than natural granite. They're only cheaper than something like Marble.

Quartz is also strictly a better material: it's not as porous as granite, much much harder than marble (marble can be scratched so easily), and can be made into almost any color or pattern.

Super rich folks may prefer natural stone, but not because it's a better material... it may be preferred because it's a worse material in many cases. The cost and fragility is part of the allure by itself.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers must provide PPE. Workers must wear it or be let go. This is not hard.

> Employers must provide PPE. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > Workers must wear it or be let go. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > This is not hard. It seems very hard.

> It seems very hard.

Its not. From a most basic level you (whatever position you're in, I've been the laborer myself, later the foreman and more recently the superintendent, now the field engineer) must keep an eye out and do your part to first, instill the safety culture, secondly to enforce it and hit any lapses as soon as they happen (sit someone out, send them home, write them up) and third, show everyone that you fucking mean it and its not a bunch of empty words, typically, by pushing back against higher management when they're trying to push schedules and work loads down onto the field crews that aren't realistic.

Whether you're using emotional appeals with your field crews, pointing out that no one comes to work not to go home at the end of the day, and how harrowing it is to watch a friend get hurt or killed, how it'll effect their partners and families; or a hard nosed impersonal business logic to explain to schedulers that pushing the team won't make them any more productive, or to accountants that cutting the budget for cheaper PPE will only instill a bad taste, I can't deny it takes work. But again it isn't hard, in the end no one wants to get hurt. You have to get past that teenaged sense of invulnerability and get it into their heads that it can and will happen to them unless they're careful.

> Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee.

Crews come and go, grow and shrink. Firing a troublesome employee brings a lot less harm to both parties than someone getting hurt or killed.

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