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The boiling frog of digital freedom

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Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#361

Post by sanderjd »

Frost1x wrote: post #221
LegitShady wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then companies will make everything a service. You need to make a downside for dearing that.

In theory, markets should regulate and competitors should be able to rise and provide products over never ending services and be successful. That doesn't seem to happen though. Is it because service designs expose real business costs of continued investment in R&D sort of deal, is it because such reliable products are bad for business (you provide something so good, reliable, and cheap you kill your own revenue strea…

I mean ... the market has spoken on this. It just isn't something that enough people value enough for it to have a positive return on investment. Like pretty much everyone else here, I think that sucks, but I also struggle to begrudge the preferences of people who just don't care about this.

So the question is just, is this a market failure in the sense that the market outcome is undesirable to society such that there's a strong case for regulation? Or is it a market success in that most people are getting what they prefer (cheaper products)?

If we were to get regulation passed on this, and prices for digital products and services were to rise, would people broadly cheer or jeer us? I think it's pretty clear that most people would be unhappy with this, at least above some level of price increase (which may be zero).

So to me the question is (like with all regulation) whether this can be regulated without increasing costs to people beyond the value of the regulation to society. Maybe so, but unfortunately I'm pretty skeptical that's the case.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#362

Post by [deleted] »

perihelions wrote: post #55

The other day I read an HN comment that thought that when you buy consumer PC hardware, it comes with a ToS that limits your property rights as the owner. It's the kind of uncanny experience I run into more and more often lately: talking with people so immersed in our new normal of cyberpunk dystopia, they seem not to remember how things were in the before-times. So accustomed to exploitative corporate gaslighting, w…

[deleted]

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#363

Post by salawat »

abwizz wrote: post #204
night-rider wrote: post #191

> 2034: VPNs are mostly outlawed worldwide We're veering towards Chinaesque authoritative regimes if that's the case. A social credit score could be down the line for the West, unless we fight for the future we want. And by fight, I don't mean lurking on Internet chat-rooms complaining, I mean literal protests in the streets and donating half your income to the EFF and other freedom fighting initiatives.

certainly not that far fetched. > other freedom fighting initiatives "one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist"

...call me what you will, but I know what I am, and why I do what I do. What you call me changes not what I fight for.

If behaving is defined as kowtowing to authoritarian control mechanisms, and furthering the goals and reach of tyrants, then I unabashedly aim to misbehave.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#364

Post by npteljes »

Daril wrote: post #355
npteljes wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is missing a very important part of how certain software became de facto standards: by achieving dominating market share, which, in turn, was achieved by shipping working software with passable UX, ruthless business practices, making governments use the software, and making schools teach the software. I'm writing this because the software is already there. There are decent alternatives to most things, sometimes…

I agree and the fact the governments prefer commercial and costly software instead of adopting open source solutions and hire local companies for support and custom development is very disturbing : they spend the taxpayers money to make rich a bunch of already disgusting rich companies. And when this company is a foreign company the damage for the state money balance (and citizens of course) is double.

That's exactly right and I think it's no much "preferring", rather than getting different deals from these companies like Microsoft. MS has already been caught specifically, but also I think that this phenomenon is hardly exclusive to software, it's just part of how the government, or rather the individuals in government, go about their business. In the third world it's practically an open secret, and I don't have doubt that basically every government works like this.

Also, large companies offer quite robust support, deals to implement specific features, compliance with different regulations, etc. I know from experience that one thing I like about dealing with large entities is that they have many corner cases already figured out.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#365

Post by nwellinghoff »

Daril wrote: post #328

There is hope: - 20 years ago it was impossible to buy a PC, especially a laptop, without MS Windows : today there are several suppliers: System76, LaptopWithLinux, TuxedoComputers, to name but a few. - It is only in the last few years (less than 10) that Linux is perfectly usable on the desktop, so I don't care what decision MS will take for Windows, it is irrelevant if you have other options. For office suites we h…

Would be nice to have a Linux phone where one could run ios and google android in a vm. Same way I run my computer. Level 1 hypervisor and all flavors on top. Max control, max options, max nerd.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#366

Post by seangrogg »

couchand wrote: post #168
seangrogg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My credit union let me deposit checks via uploaded picture on browsers back around 2008ish. Don't get me wrong, I did this by taking a picture from my phone and emailing it to myself to upload - the smartphone UX simplifies that. But this is a trail long since blazed.

Yes, this is one of those things that banks will sell as an add-on because capitalism. Credit unions will either just not have their act together on it (i.e. they contract with a bad service provider) or will have all kinds of useful stuff like this for free. I really want a general-membership credit union with stellar technology, but I haven't found one yet. Does your credit union by chance offer open membership?

Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge it does not.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#367

Post by 0dayz »

brandonmenc wrote: post #306
0dayz wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but those are factors that does not involve piracy/forgery. My point is that no drm doesn't give any advantage to the artist from a monetary pov. Drm at least makes it less likely an artist will lose out on potential sales. Hence why I make the point that if we want a drm free world, we should focus on coming up with better alternatives to what we have.

> we should focus on coming up with better alternatives to what we have Agree. But the best alternative might actually be one where artists (Disney included) can’t “own” their art and where you can’t make money selling copies of digital files.

I don't think so, it's too idealistic in todays world, even if we eliminate all form of material capital - art I think will only increase in value as it will become more valuable and competitive for us.

I think a better solution as of right now is a redefinition of copyright, that copyright is handled primary by a agency like the Copyright Office that deals with registration and licensing of said copyright work.

And copyright itself would be granted to the individuals who created said creative work (we would probably need to make clear distinctions between say creative art and more "logical" things like code) and they would be payed loyalty for each type of license the copyright office would issue (license for private use, in a 1 time production, continuous and lifetime license).

Companies could sponsor said creative work and get a free lifetime license.

Obviously I'm not a lawyer but I believe something like this, where copyright is as rigid in protection towards the original creators and allows for a much more fluid exchange of information depending on circumstance is at least a step in the right direction.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#368

Post by wizofaus »

louthy wrote: post #67
jacquesm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Stallman movement failed The stuff you read on hn... Seriously, you think it failed? I think it succeeded wildly beyond anything anybody imagined at the time, to the point that very large entities threw everything and the kitchensink at it to try to make it fail. Which exposed them for the criminals they were. We don't need anything that is more compatible with 'business owners' than what we've got. What we nee…

Businesses don't do free. It is not what they exist for: The 'Stallman movement' isn't compatible with the the tech-company, the employed software-engineer, etc. I think what the OP is getting at is that the for-profit tech industry needs something akin to the Hippocratic Oath [1]. As software engineers swearing to a set of 'do no harm' ethical codes could well be a first step to becoming a recognised professional. I…

> As software engineers swearing to a set of 'do no harm' ethical codes could well be a first step

Just like "don't be evil"? Which was actually enshrined in Google's corporate code of conduct for some time, and could even believed if you squinted the right way...

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#369

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

jacquesm wrote: post #48
max_ wrote: post #21

We need a new philosophical movement for computer technology. The Stallman movement failed because it was not practical for business applications. At the end of the day, coders & hardware manufacturers need to eat just like accountants, plumbers and doctors. Technology can't rely 100% on altruism. What we need is something close to the Ethical standards of the Stallman movement, but also compatable with business owne…

> The Stallman movement failed The stuff you read on hn... Seriously, you think it failed? I think it succeeded wildly beyond anything anybody imagined at the time, to the point that very large entities threw everything and the kitchensink at it to try to make it fail. Which exposed them for the criminals they were. We don't need anything that is more compatible with 'business owners' than what we've got. What we nee…

> "I think it succeeded wildly beyond anything anybody imagined at the time..."

Somebody needs their memory refreshed. What was imagined at the time is that nearly all proprietary software companies, particularly Microsoft, would have gone bankrupt or bowed to the inevitable necessity to release all their source code to the community under capital-F Free licenses and nearly all businesses that use software would be voluntarily contributing any code developed for their own use to the community also under Free licenses so that their code would help others and others' code would help them.

Needless to say, this has not happened. Instead, FOSS turned out to be an enormous free handout to businesses with very little contribution back to the community compared to the value received. (Yes, even the Linux kernel. If there were contributions to Linux by all businesses that use it that were even a tenth of what Microsoft charges for Windows, there would be a thousand full time kernel developers.) That is failure and developers are recognizing that by turning away from Free licenses to fake FOSS licenses like open core or shared source.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#370

Post by phs »

nwellinghoff wrote: post #365
Daril wrote: post #328

There is hope: - 20 years ago it was impossible to buy a PC, especially a laptop, without MS Windows : today there are several suppliers: System76, LaptopWithLinux, TuxedoComputers, to name but a few. - It is only in the last few years (less than 10) that Linux is perfectly usable on the desktop, so I don't care what decision MS will take for Windows, it is irrelevant if you have other options. For office suites we h…

Would be nice to have a Linux phone where one could run ios and google android in a vm. Same way I run my computer. Level 1 hypervisor and all flavors on top. Max control, max options, max nerd.

postmarketOS and waydroid are almost there, though I still went back to lineage. No answers for iOS.
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