Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#361

Post by AniseAbyss » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #286

captainmuon wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Firefox's addon policy is one of the reasons they lost market share. Moving from oldscool extensions to webextensions they lost their unique selling point. Firefox was the only browser that you could really theme. It's adblock existed earlier and was better than others (and is soon again due to Manifest v3?). Especially for non-tech-savvy people, who don't know what a browser is, if they need a certain featur…

No offense but you could only come to this conclusion if you've looked at literally zero data and are just shooting from your hip based on sporadic HN conversations. Their market share was dropping for a long time before, and it was dropping for a long time after. And to the extent that switching addon models helped them improve performance during their big marketing push in 2017, it probably got them a few users bac…

Most people don't even use ad blockers.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#362

Post by cpeterso » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #164

input_sh wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see, Mozilla is stuck in this limbo where people criticise them for taking money from Google, but also criticise them when they explore alternate funding sources (Pocket, Mozilla VPN, Firefox Private Network, MDN Plus) because they're not focusing on Firefox and Thunderbird. Sometimes literally in the same comment, as the one above. In other words, HN crowd will shit on them regardless of what they do.

> where people criticise them for taking money from Google, but also criticise them when they explore alternate funding sources What aggravates me is nobody is asking why do you need so much cash? - Why has it become so big that it needs to spend 81M on Management payroll per year? [0] - Why has it grown so big that it needs to spend 21M in external consultants per year? [0] - Why do you need 1000+ staff to roll out…

> Why do you need 1000+ staff to roll out an open source browser engine / browser and an email client?

How many people do you think work on the Chrome team? Then include companies like Microsoft, Samsung, Igalia, and others that contribute to Chromium.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#363

Post by Nextgrid » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #340

Nextgrid wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disabling extensions had nothing to do with their market share It kinda did because it removed a reason to pick Firefox over its competitors. If Firefox doesn't actually bring anything tangible to the table, why would people pick it over whatever they're currently using (which is likely to be Chrome)? The average user doesn't hate Google like some people do, so a purely ideological argument of "it isn't Chrome" won…

>It kinda did because it removed a reason to pick Firefox over its competitors. The reason to pick firefox over competitors is because they are the ONLY web browser vendor who isn't actively handicapping the internet. Firefox could smear my face with literal shit every time I use it and it would still be less hostile to end users than, let's see what chrome is doing this week, oh yes, forcing everyone to build attest…

> The reason to pick firefox over competitors is because they are the ONLY web browser vendor who isn't actively handicapping the internet.

Nobody among regular people cares. Banking on ideology alone is in fact how you end up with a low single-digit percentage of market share.

Even if Mozilla actually had your best interests at heart, it still needs to have decent marketshare (including from people who do not know/care about ideology) to actually have any weight in web standards discussions, otherwise Chrome can just ignore it and push whatever agenda they have.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#364

Post by herewulf » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:06 PM UTC

PurpleRamen wrote: post #289

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where people criticise them for taking money from Google, but also criticise them when they explore alternate funding sources What aggravates me is nobody is asking why do you need so much cash? - Why has it become so big that it needs to spend 81M on Management payroll per year? [0] - Why has it grown so big that it needs to spend 21M in external consultants per year? [0] - Why do you need 1000+ staff to roll out…

> - Why do you need 1000+ staff to roll out an open source browser engine / browser and an email client? Writing fast moving mature Software for multiple platforms, is not something you can do with three nerds in your spare-time. Web browsers are highly complex, and Firefox has still many historical grown baggage to improve and maintain. And let's be fair, their software has a very high quality-level, even we can dis…

I think you're mixing up annual and monthly salaries/employee expenses. At 666K/month the 3 "well paid" workers are costing 222K/month and the 20 "poorly paid" workers are costing 33K/month. I'd be rather okay getting paid this poorly!

I like where you were going with your comment but the math doesn't support the specific argument.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#365

Post by celsoazevedo » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:11 PM UTC

riskable wrote: post #277

oracle2025 wrote: post #195

Looking forward to finally have the i-dont-care-about-cookies add-on for my phone.

You can already do this with uBlock Origin: Just go into the (uBlock Origin) settings and enable the AdGuard and EasyList stuff under "Annoyances". "AdGuard – Cookie Notices" and "EasyList – Cookie Notices"

That's only cosmetic filters (or at least it used to be). "I don't care about cookies" or the open source fork "I still don't care about cookies" also clicks the buttons to accept/refuse.

The best one seems to be Consent-O-Matic as it actually tries to disable all trackers, but it doesn't work on some sites/popups.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#366

Post by cpeterso » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:12 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #321

donkeybeer wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This opinion might differ from others but my main complaint is with their useless and sometimes hostile UI changes rather than the occasional ad for other Mozilla services. For example recently the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages, which I had to use userchrome to override. Next problem I am trying to tackle right now is favicon being hidden when the audio playing icon is on a tab that seems to hav…

>the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages What does this mean? My experience using tabs in firefox has not changed in like twenty years!

The "user hostile" tab design change was the addition of a space of a few pixels between the tabs and address bar: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463321/firefox-design-re...

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#367

Post by Nextgrid » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #334

Nextgrid wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox would actually pay for itself. The Enterprise spends insane money on (potentially dubious) security products. The browser is the primary interface to untrusted and often-malicious code, as well as a window to the outside world. It's the perfect place for security features that would actually make a difference. Sell an enterprise-focused browser with built-in ad & tracker blocking (important for security), web…

Oh fuck off. How is Mozilla supposed to build a browser that outcompetes two companies that literally build all in one corporate environments? Firefox could literally provide regular oral sex to the CEO and still be less attractive to businesses than whatever shlock microsoft has bought and re-sold.

> How is Mozilla supposed to build a browser that outcompetes two companies that literally build all in one corporate environments?

Do any of those companies' browsers actually come anywhere close to the feature set I just outlined? Chrome is functionally a very good browser but lacks those features, and Edge is malware disguised as a browser that needs a full-time sysadmin to keep on top of the group policies to disable whatever bullshit "feature" they release every few weeks.

None of them have ad/tracker/malware blocking, logging or data loss prevention. Not sure if any have website/domain blocking capabilities. All of these are features that big enterprises currently use expensive third-party solutions (such as TLS intercepting proxies) for. A browser that has that built-in would actually be an upgrade.

> Oh fuck off

Shall we keep it civil? I think we’re both ultimately on the same side in wanting a browser that puts users’ interests first instead of adtech or dubious corporate interests (I’m not even sure of Mozilla’s current strategy because the user-hostility and annoyance of Firefox isn’t even due to actual ads).

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#368

Post by II2II » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

wintermutestwin wrote: post #349

mrguyorama wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you are using horizontal tabs, you are not a "power-user" of a browser. This is just such absurd, elitist, gatekeeping. WTF. How about just not have 400 tabs open? Am I really not a "power user" of my browser because I utilize the bookmark feature. Get over yourself man

>How about just not have 400 tabs open? Because it allows me to access 400 tabs worth of information at a glance. I am not "gatekeeping," I just think that you aren't using the "power" of the browser if you have On my MBP, I have 10 windows (each with a title representing general category). In each, I have: up to 24 pinned tabs that take up three tab slots up to 30 regular tabs open that I can see without scrolling e…

Point 3 is why I don't use vertical tabs on Firefox. While I don't think that vertical tabs is a necessary feature, facilitating modifications to the UI via addons would be a huge win for anyone who wants to implement such features, or even experiment with different forms of user interaction.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#369

Post by celsoazevedo » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

jerrygoyal wrote: post #64

it's already possible via this Firefox fork https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser/release...

They seem to be using this custom add-on collection: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/collections/1620123...

But that was already possible to do on regular Firefox Beta and Nightly. We just had to create our own collection, like Iceraven did.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#370

Post by Nextgrid » Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #331

Nextgrid wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What made Firefox originally successful (and gave it significant marketshare against a preinstalled incumbent) was the features. They simply made a better browser than the status-quo at the time. I don't understand nor approve their current strategy of trying to make a Chrome clone - even if they actually make a perfect copy, why would people use it instead of Chrome itself? The only way for Firefox to survive and th…

>Make a better browser and people will come. With magic money? Do you think mozilla employees and firefox employees should starve? Should they be making firefox entirely as charity? The other browsers are made by a GigaCorp that extracts a tax from pretty much everything on the internet, especially if you want to do any advertising, and another Megacorp that has billions upon billions of dollars in cash just waiting…

> With magic money? Do you think mozilla employees and firefox employees should starve? Should they be making firefox entirely as charity?

Well they've got enough magic money considering the salaries of their C-suite, so short-term needs are absolutely covered.

Long-term the Google subsidy will eventually dry up but focusing on an enterprise-grade browser (see my other comment here) is worth a shot.

Charity isn't actually that bad of an idea either, since Mozilla Foundation is actually a non-profit (but somehow owns a for-profit company that pays insane salaries to execs? Shady as fuck). Developing a browser that is actually focused on the user fits with their purported mission and will do more to improve the web than all the auxiliary projects/initiatives they've done so far.