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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#361

Post by ciupicri »

nequo wrote: post #250
arp242 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- It's not backwards compatible. - Features I find useful have been removed. - I dislike Lua, and significantly prefer Vim9Script. - Gvim is useful at times.

Out of curiosity to better understand the ways in which Vim can be used: > Features I find useful have been removed. Which ones specifically? > significantly other Vim9Script What do you like more in Vim9Script? > Gvim is useful at times. What are your use cases for the GUI?

> What are your use cases for the GUI?

I don't want to type like it's 1976. I want something simple and easy to use similar Notepad / gedit, but that still powerful when needed.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#362

Post by xp84 »

DicIfTEx wrote: post #228
flobosg wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additional links: * What to Do Before You Die: A Tech Checklist – https://archive.is/6vjqQ * Cheat Sheet For If I'm Gone – https://archive.is/lnWX6 – https://github.com/christophercalm/if-im-gone/blob/main/exam... (HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31748553 )

Also https://g3rv4.com/2022/04/using-shamir-secret-sharing which includes a link to an easy-to-use SSS tool that can output shards as QR codes.

I am picturing a room full of non-programmers staring at all these documents, codes and Docker commands and saying “Well, Greg was obviously crazy. Instead of leaving any of his passwords, he just left pages of gibberish. I guess we’ll never be able to access anything.”

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#363

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

ansible wrote: post #326
beej71 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If neovim had the same keystrokes to move out of a terminal window as it does to move out of editor windows, I'd switch. But as it is, it's super clunky compared to vim. I know about rebinding to alt, but that doesn't work in all my terminals. So for me, it's that one lousy thing that keeps me from switching. And if someone knows the magic setting to make it mimic vim, please let me know.

I've never used those features, and instead rely on GNU screen (or `term`) to manage my terminal windows. Sometimes I also use horizontal / vertical splits with GNU screen, but it is a bit clunky.

For better or for worse ive ended up with a workflow heavily dependent on sending vim registers to the terminal

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#364

Post by gkfasdfasdf »

bradly wrote: post #353
gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim's language server integration is a killer feature that got me to switch.

Can you explain the benefit? I'm not familiar with the feature.

Basically neovim can act as a client to a variety of different language servers (https://github.com/neovim/nvim-lspconfig/blob/master/doc/ser...) which give neovim IDE capabilities. This can be done in original Vim also but requires external plugins which can be a pain to compile and install. Neovim has it built in.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#365

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

enriquto wrote: post #352
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lua is faster than Python and also easier to embed in vim [1] which are both big advantages for the end user. It means fast plugins and no hassle with having the correct python version. Why Bram build is own language and then doubled down on it with vimscript9 I don't really understand. [1] https://neovim.discourse.group/t/why-was-lua-chosen-for-neov...

> Why Bram built his own language [...] I don't really understand. What language would have you chosen in 1991 instead of creating vimscript? The vimscript language is a very natural extension[0] of Bill Joy's "ex" language, that was used in vi since 1976. The history of vimscript is not weird, it's just a fairly natural continuation of existing practices. Vimscript9 is a least-friction update for modern times. [0] h…

I should have written I don't really know anything about.

According to your link scripting was only available from '98, at which point Lua and Python were already around, but then I don't know how viable that would have been. Funny you say that about ex, because I find running ex commands from vimscript the most clunky thing about it.

In my opinion the least friction for the ecosystem would have been to follow neovim and adapt Lua.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#366

Post by ossusermivami »

maleldil wrote: post #139
gorjusborg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should ask, and answer, the question in reverse. What does neovim offer me, as a regular vim user? Well, one of the goals of neovim was to make it easier for new people to contribute. So, there's an obvious feature you might be overlooking: the project surviving past its creators passing. Beyond that, async, lua, lsp and treesitter support are other things neovim brings to the table. I don't use vim much anymor…

I know you listed Lua already, but it's important to stress that. Bram _did not_ want Lua as the main scripting language, and created Vim9 Script as a "better VimScript" instead. That's a stark difference in the direction for the project, and it signals to me that Vim is not meant to reintegrate with Neovim. It's no longer a question of Vim catching up with Neovim. However, this was Bram's vision. We don't know how t…

it's not quite just a "better vimscript" language it's an incompatible language, if it was just improvement on top of the existing vimscript it would have been fine i think but what people are complaining about is if you are going to break compatibility why not choose an existing language like lua

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#367

Post by maleldil »

ossusermivami wrote: post #366
maleldil wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you listed Lua already, but it's important to stress that. Bram _did not_ want Lua as the main scripting language, and created Vim9 Script as a "better VimScript" instead. That's a stark difference in the direction for the project, and it signals to me that Vim is not meant to reintegrate with Neovim. It's no longer a question of Vim catching up with Neovim. However, this was Bram's vision. We don't know how t…

it's not quite just a "better vimscript" language it's an incompatible language, if it was just improvement on top of the existing vimscript it would have been fine i think but what people are complaining about is if you are going to break compatibility why not choose an existing language like lua

Yes, you're right. That's what I meant, but I should've highlighted the incompatibility aspect.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#368

Post by stolsvik »

xp84 wrote: post #362
DicIfTEx wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also https://g3rv4.com/2022/04/using-shamir-secret-sharing which includes a link to an easy-to-use SSS tool that can output shards as QR codes.

I am picturing a room full of non-programmers staring at all these documents, codes and Docker commands and saying “Well, Greg was obviously crazy. Instead of leaving any of his passwords, he just left pages of gibberish. I guess we’ll never be able to access anything.”

Me too, but then I realise that one should include at least a few tech savvy friends - or references to good coworkers or similar which these friends could contact.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#369

Post by GoblinSlayer »

majewsky wrote: post #124

Can someone copy-paste the text, please? I cannot read it because Google hates Firefox users apparently. EDIT: The Internet Archive has a functional copy. https://web.archive.org/web/20230810094255/groups.google.com...

Didn't know web archive could see it. Google groups never worked for me, so I assumed it's yet another broken web 2.0 app.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#370

Post by sundarurfriend »

halostatue wrote: post #346
sundarurfriend wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've generally had more success with Goneovim than with Neovide, give that a try if you haven't yet.

I’ve tried so many different nvim GUIs, but when I last tried them (March or so), none of them behaved correctly on macOS, most of them had atrocious font rendering, didn't like part of the configuration that I had set up (neovide in particular had a deep incompatibility with one of the alert replacement plugins), crashed regularly, or had things enabled by default which aren't reachable with vim scripting. I’ve gone…

> (there's a massive impedance mismatch between neovim and Lua; you always feel like you're working with a foreign interface).

I agree, and it's a bit surprising that it isn't talked about more. I still feel like it's overall a win compared to Vimscript, in terms of readability and maintainability, but there's definitely an enduring awkwardness to customizing the editor using Lua.

> Goneovim was slightly more stable, but IIRC, the font rendering and macOS integration were awful enough that I uninstalled it shortly after launching it.

That's fair enough - I used it on Linux, and I don't care too much about font rendering, so it works out for me.

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