I am seeing a pattern here and I am starting to believe that Sam Altman is an Accelerationist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism A lot of his actions, investments and marketing strategy seem to point in that direction.
It's weird how much of that wiki article (and others I just looked up) trends towards right/alt-right extremism as I have never thought of accelerationism as something fascists would take to. My original understanding of it was that ai/tech will become so advanced that it will take over a lot of the production and labor we currently do to feed, build, and supply the world with resources and when that part is automate…
Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
361–370 of 370 posts
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's just "hack[ing] something to [his] advantage." And pg was his enthusiastic Palpatine. Egging on and fawning over sama was already uncomfortable back in 2010. http://paulgraham.com/founders.html
Luckily, YC is experiencing a cultural shift. The likes of PG and Marc Andrewessen, Sam Altman and Peter Thiel were not frowned upon in 2010, not to mention Elon Musk or Zuckerberg.
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honest question, is there any cryptocurrency that provides actual value to people? The blockchain can be trivially deanonymized from my understanding. It's difficult to get coins without at any point revealing your identity. So, if you're not in a circle of people who will physically trade coin for cash (or vis-versa) there seems to be no privacy argument. I just fail to see crypto as anything but a scam - period. It…
I made this comment the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36885902 If you want to go back a bit further in time, I'd like to point out someone else's comment that I thought was pretty spot on as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410 Hopefully that opens some discussion/thought points that we can focus on. Update: thinking a bit further on your points. My personal concern isn't privacy, my…
Not trying to be glib, but have you tried an internationally recognized ATM card?
I travel extensively since 30+ years and never ever had a problem to get access to cash (and thus my funds).
That also goes for "exotic" places like Vietnam, Peru, Laos or Cambodia.
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it possible for people to understand how it works and to still oppose it being broadly adopted in your opinion? Can you please clarify what exactly others are not understanding or misrepresenting?
It is of course possible to understand it and still be opposed. That's what makes it so frustrating that seemingly all of the negative coverage is ill-informed; I would love to read some informed criticism! Just some simple examples: > Imagine that your digital identity has been lost in some way — shut down by authorities for non-compliance, or otherwise blocked. With traditional cash — and other cryptocurrencies — y…
From worldcoin.org
> could drastically increase economic opportunity, scale a reliable solution for distinguishing humans from AI online while preserving privacy, enable global democratic processes, and eventually show a potential path to AI-funded UBI.
This breaks down into 3 claims:
1. Be able to identify humans from AI online in a privacy preserving manner 2. Provide a platform for global democratic processes 3. Provide a universal basic income.
If we cannot agree that these claims are Worldcoin’s main goals then I am afraid Worldcoin is going to need to update their website as I do not see how it could be interpreted any other way in the language they use.
So now that we have their claims we can begin to look at some concerns. Starting with the ones you provided:
> You don't need to walk up to an Orb to create a wallet. You can own and transact worldcoin without ever showing your iris to an orb.
If this is possible, they why is the orb necessary and how can Worldcoin provide the guarantee that everyone using their wallet and blockchain is in fact a person? If UBI and voting are to happen using this as the platform, not needing verification via their iris scanning mechanism calls into question how they can claim to prove that each world id maps to one and only one unique human. If anyone can create an account without verification and transact using Worldcoin then voting and fair distribution of UBI cannot happen the way they describe.
The second concern is something that can happen in the non-crypto space. But if this is a valid concern of the current system, replacing it with something like Worldcoin doesn’t resolve that concern. We would have that same problem. So if we are to replace the current system with a new one, why would we willingly carry over these kind of issues if it were possible to not do so?
Now on to my concerns. I am not an expert in cryptographic mathematics and the nature of zero-knowledge proofs. So I will accept the following:
1. Iris Hash generation is cryptographically unique, privacy preserving, and the database of Iris hashes will be deleted.
2. Iris Hash to World Id is generated in a sufficiently zero-knowledge proof way that makes it so an Iris Hash cannot be used to identify any one specific World Id.
3. World Id to Wallet Private Key is also generated in a sufficiently zero-knowledge proof way that makes it so an Wallet’s private key cannot be used to identify any one specific World Id.
With those assumptions, I have the following concerns:
1. Has the company behind Worldcoin allowed for 3rd party audits? Code reviews, attestation of the zero-knowledge proofs, and other standard security audits we would expect of a global biometrics hardware company?
If they haven’t, and we cannot independently verify any of their claims, they really cannot be trusted. The Worldcoin company has a financial incentive in becoming the global identity solution. Saying they are safe from any vulnerabilities, privacy issues, or flaws in implementation is not good enough for me.
2. Sybil attacks. What has Worldcoin done to prevent sybil attacks? If I can modify the appearance of my iris with the use of a contact lense, and any other biometric data they would collect, can they identify me as the same person? Are chimpanzees inhuman enough to not be allowed to verify? Can attacking the orb operator by completing a sybil attack be enough to perform a denial of service attack against Worldcoin? If my goal is to prevent people from accessing the UBI or voting process then if this attack is possible, as an attacker, I win if my fake personas go undetected and I can collect the UBI and vote fraudulently or if my attack is detected but this compromises the identities of anybody scanned using that orb thus invalidating their accounts or preventing people from accessing accounts by being scanned for the first time as a replacement orb for that area is needed.
3. Which leads to the orbs. If you or I am unable to build our own orbs and join them to the network, then any claims of decentralization is invalid. Of only official orbs are allowed, if they cannot be examined to verify behavior then we cannot trust them either (ties into the audit issues).
I could go on with more but at least based on my surface level understanding of Worldcoin and their operations, I can see several attacks that if this is widely implemented as the global ubi and voting system would be untenable.
If there is no account recovery system, the average person could easily be denied access to participating in society by a simple mistake on their part, let alone any targeted denial of service style attack. And if there is an account recovery process then that is a vector that can be attacked today.
Putting all the world’s eggs in one basket makes this system a nonstarter. Claiming that they don’t want to do that means the language on their website and rhetoric they use in interviews are lies or misinformation of some kind so why should we trust them?
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
I made this comment the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36885902 If you want to go back a bit further in time, I'd like to point out someone else's comment that I thought was pretty spot on as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410 Hopefully that opens some discussion/thought points that we can focus on. Update: thinking a bit further on your points. My personal concern isn't privacy, my…
> If I'm in another country, getting access to my funds is often extremely difficult. Not trying to be glib, but have you tried an internationally recognized ATM card? I travel extensively since 30+ years and never ever had a problem to get access to cash (and thus my funds). That also goes for "exotic" places like Vietnam, Peru, Laos or Cambodia.
It is absurd to have to get some special card or bank account. It is absurd to be limited to a tiny amount of money, I certainly wouldn't have been able to pay rent that way.
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#366Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#367I am seeing a pattern here and I am starting to believe that Sam Altman is an Accelerationist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism A lot of his actions, investments and marketing strategy seem to point in that direction.
It's weird how much of that wiki article (and others I just looked up) trends towards right/alt-right extremism as I have never thought of accelerationism as something fascists would take to. My original understanding of it was that ai/tech will become so advanced that it will take over a lot of the production and labor we currently do to feed, build, and supply the world with resources and when that part is automate…
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
Luckily, YC is experiencing a cultural shift. The likes of PG and Marc Andrewessen, Sam Altman and Peter Thiel were not frowned upon in 2010, not to mention Elon Musk or Zuckerberg.
Can you elaborate a bit more?
Re: Worldcoin isn’t as bad as it sounds: It’s worse
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it doesn't solve the oracle problem That was never the goal. > There's a black market in China for these identities already It is built such that eventually, Worldcoin identities can be trivially reclaimed by the iris owner, so the market for these identities will drop to zero once people realize they can just sell their same Worldcoin cred over and over again and some sucker is going to buy it. Their only goal her…
> Also, the registration is basically fully anonymous. You are uploading your iris scan into a black box, how can that be considered anonymous?