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SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

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Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of "security" is pretty objective (Howey test), but the answer it produces tends not to be liked by people in the crypto space, so they argue hard about why it's not a definition of security. What quotes like these do is make it trivial to prove the mens rea (intent) requirements, and put a lie to claims that they didn't know it was a security or that their interpretation as not-a-security was reasonab…

Putting this here in case it's useful. Please correct if it's wrong. What is the Howey test for whether something is a security? """ The Howey Test asks whether a transaction constitutes an "investment contract," which is a type of security. If it is an investment contract, it must satisfy four criteria: It is an investment of money. The investment is in a common enterprise. There is an expectation of profits from th…

Please tell me, how is Bitcoin a security?

Speaking to various security lawyers there were two terms that are extremely vague in the industry:

1) "Common enterprise". What does that mean? Gary Gensler openly said in a speech Bitcoin isnt a security because there is no "common enterprise." When he was saying these words he made a motion with his elbows like you've got a buddy. That's the closest I got into his mind for what "common enterprise" means. But really, if you go by the widest definitions, "common enterprise" means anything where various entities are all united in winning, e.g. miners mine, people buy and hold, it's all a common enterprise. By that definition, almost everything is a security, including Bitcoin, despite what even a hawk like Gary Gensler says.

2) "Equity securities". As opposed to non-equity securities such as debt. Let's say all tokens are securities. But are they "equity securities" meaning you have to register with the SEC as soon as you have more than 2000 holders? But what makes a security an "equity security" specifically? Is it the ability to vote? Then governance tokens are "equity securities". Is it the ability to receive dividends from some profits? Then maybe Liquidity Pool tokens on Uniswap are equity securities.

But nevermind that these terms are not well defined, even in the statutory law or case law. The vagueness is actually broader than that.

All shows like Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon, etc. have been running, technically speaking, unregistered securities offerings throughout the world and United States, yet the SEC does nothing. They are textbook cases of the Howey Test:

1) People (kids, in fact!) buy Yu Gi Oh trading cards

2) There is an investment of money (either they nag their parents, or they actually spend a non-trivial proportion of their own life savings)

3) With an expectation of profit. Witness how many of them don't actually use the cards, but keep them in mint condition (and as we have seen SEC successfully argue in the recent case SEC vs LBRY, if even a few people buy with expectation of profit, then ALL those sales are securities).

4) From the efforts of others -- namely the producers of the show, and their promotion of Yu Gi Oh trading cards. Trading! Perhaps even selling!

5) There is definitely a common enterprise, that isn't even decentralized. The Yu Gi Oh show is produced in Japan and shown in the USA, and drives the sales of the cards. Cancel the show, and the cards fall in price. Yu Gi Oh Abridged series even lampooned this, to great comedic effect.

Oh those foreign-owned Japanese companies, preying on our kids selling them investment contracts! Do they really think the kids are sophisticated investors who think things through when they keep their mint-condition cards! Who will buy the top and be holding the bag after the show is canceled?

So being a textbook definition of Howey, why did the SEC never go after Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh and any of the other "merchandising" companies? How about Marvel with their mint-condition comics? Isn't that a "common enterprise" since some people buy comics for their investment value?

But vagueness actually broader than that. According to some experts, everything is a security: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/everything-security-chris-har...

This article was shared on HN at some point, and it shows how the SEC has at times considered even transactions outside the united states, which did not have any character you'd normally associate a security, a security transaction in the USA. So at this point it starts bordering on the absurd.

If you take Objectivism to its logical conclusion, it could seem that it's morally better to torture a man for a $100 profit, as long as you could get away with it. But then Ayn Rand throws in "as befits a rational being", as a sort of no true scotsman argument that avoids the logical conclusion.

Similarly the SEC has been using "Sufficiently Decentralized" as a way to avoid the logical conclusion that they should go after a ton of other large ecosystems. For example, Hinman famously did it with Ethereum: https://www.sec.gov/news/speech/speech-hinman-061418

But now after he left, the SEC is revisiting that: https://decrypt.co/46456/regulator-coined-term-sufficiently-...

Today, Gensler says Bitcoin is not a security. Tomorrow, it could be considered one.

But wait, it gets worse.

Let's remember that the STATES also have their own definition of a security. In fact, the states on the West Coast (from Washington to California) consider anything a security that puts capital at risk. Yes, that's right, even if it doesn't meet the Howey test, as long as you have put your capital at risk, it's a security transaction! You don't need an expectation of profit. Wow!

https://www.theselc.org/which_states_apply_the_risk_capital_...

I have asked securities lawyers and they have confirmed that MOST KICKSTARTER CAMPAIGNS ARE TECHNICALLY SECURITIES SALES according to these state laws, they just don't enforce it.

Many of you live in California, so all of you who have done kickstarter campaigns have probably violated your own state's securities laws. But it's so absurd that they haven't bothered enforcing those.

About the only things that aren't at securities transactions, by the way, are donations. That's when people simply send money with no expectation in return. Hex tried to leverage that with their "sacrifices".

Think you can just airdrop coins to people? There's no "investment of money" right? Well, using human logic that would be correct. But there have been some precedent back in the 90s when people showed up to drink beer, put their contact info and got free stock, or something like that. And the SEC said that even that was a security, presumably because the contact info was worth something, or maybe some other reason, it's not actually spelled out clearly in the case law. So now, although there has never been a single SEC case going after an airdrop, lawyers are cautious.

Yes they laws are protecting you from getting free stuff in your wallet! Who knows kind of loss you can incur by getting free stuff with no obligation!

Anyway, of course there are important scams to go after and the SEC has a job to do. I think it's an important job. But I'm just showing you how absurd the thing can get if you try to use actual definitions of words in the Howey Test and take it to their logical conclusion, and what it actually means.

This isn't limited to Securities laws. Remember the Infrastructure Bill? Well, it said that a "broker" is anyone who builds software. Now if you build a wallet, you might have to KYC all your users. Except the Treasury said they won't enforce it. How nice (what about under the next admin?) Well, the Bitcoin lobby got them to exempt Bitcoin through an amendment around proof-of-work, but that's pretty much it.

Oh and Europe is about to pass the Cyber Resilience Act that might create penalties for any open source software that doesn't pass a check by their cyber security watchdog agencies, which haven't been created yet for this bill.

I'll just finish with a couple words about FINCEN, because OFAC and FINCEN are far more serious than the SEC. (And FATCA also enforces things like the Travel Rule worldwide, and soon the Travel Rule will require everyone to track everything).

You know all of you who build marketplaces and handle money? Well, you might be a MONEY TRANSMITTER. According to the Bank Secrecy Act, you have to register and then the States will slap you with a lot of requirements, like maintaining a surety bond. But, there are exemptions, I'll let you read about them here:

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20...

Here's the interesting thing. These are only exemptions on the FEDERAL level. The individual states might have a DIFFERENT definition of "money transmission business" and they might apply their own local laws to you. It might be that two sided marketplace you're building, it's violating money transmission laws in a dozen states. Maybe. I've asked lawyers for a list, and very few actually have them.

But here is a useful link, enjoy: https://abnk.assembly.ca.gov/sites/abnk.assembly.ca.gov/file...

Alright entrepreneurs, good luck navigating that!

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#362
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting this here in case it's useful. Please correct if it's wrong. What is the Howey test for whether something is a security? """ The Howey Test asks whether a transaction constitutes an "investment contract," which is a type of security. If it is an investment contract, it must satisfy four criteria: It is an investment of money. The investment is in a common enterprise. There is an expectation of profits from th…

Maybe profit is the modern-day perception of why you'd buy crypto-currency. All I could hope for would be for the tokens to be kept secure and available for spending, that's already a high bar. I can see the argument against proof-of-stake, doesn't your quantity of tokens increase without doing anything? The way I see it, other crypto-currencies only have the payment-processing system component. There's no expectatio…

> I can see the argument against proof-of-stake, doesn't your quantity of tokens increase without doing anything?

It depends.

With Algorand for example where staking is "fully automated" and you don't actually even have to be online to stake or have delegated to an online party? Then yes.

With Ethereum where you run a node secured with your stake? No. You have to maintain a staking node and mitigate potential threats/failure modes which would lead to downtime. It's kinda like being paid out for an SLA. If you can't maintain uptime and correct functioning, you don't get paid and potentially you owe money. Now if you outsource the operation of a staking node, it's still the same situation but you are just outsourcing to "the cloud" or someone else.

With Cardano where you have stake pool operators and delegators? Also no. If you run a stake pool, you essentially are in the same situation as with Ethereum. You have an SLA target of practically 100% and get penalised for failing to meet it. However for delegates (people who assign their stake rather than run a pool themselves), it's still no just "money go up". You are being paid for picking reliable, functional pools and voting with your stake that they should be trusted. And that is a job that doesn't just stop once you pick a pool, you still need to monitor the pool to verify that they are performing. And it's lower risk but there is no assurance that your funds would continue to increase unless you do your job and pick pools that operate correctly and reliably.

Those cover the big variants of Proof of stake that I am aware of.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not writing down anything youd be upset another person read is a pretty standard instruction for people doing interactions with ordinary business clients anywhere that data protection legislation theoretically allows them to make a statutory request the company send records you hold about them (Probably other jurisdictions too, if their lawsuits have a discovery process) And that's "dear junior sales team members, pl…

> that's "dear junior sales team members, please don't put your opinion of the client in writing, in the unlikely event they ask for a data dump they might be a bit miffed" One of my first moves running a trading team is reducing or eliminating internal chat. I don’t think I’ve gone a week without at least one client receiving an inappropriate nickname. It’s harmless. But it’s not something you want showing up in dis…

I was _shocked_ when I moved from finance to tech and chat retentions (if they weren’t infinite) were set in months.

I was used to low single digit days retention. I still think that’s a good policy even without compliance issues. Keeping chat from becoming a de facto document management system.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#365
post #354

"The S.E.C. said the world’s largest cryptocurrency exchange mixed “billions of dollars” in customer funds and secretly sent them to a separate company controlled by Binance’s founder, Changpeng Zhao." That's a criminal offense. Here's the court filing.[1] This is just a civil case for now, but expect criminal charges. "Between October 2022 and January 2023, Zhao personally received $62.5 million from one of the Bina…

The DOJ probably already has a sealed indictment and is waiting for CZ to visit an extradition friendly country, but I doubt CZ will ever do it.

Isn't he already in Canada?

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#366
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's stupid is that quotes like this, not actual substance of what their business practices are, are the only way the SEC can establish what is and isn't a "security." there is no real truth or objective test and the SEC has offered no meaningful guidance. so they just determine this based on subjective emails the CEO sent once.

The definition of "security" is pretty objective (Howey test), but the answer it produces tends not to be liked by people in the crypto space, so they argue hard about why it's not a definition of security. What quotes like these do is make it trivial to prove the mens rea (intent) requirements, and put a lie to claims that they didn't know it was a security or that their interpretation as not-a-security was reasonab…

It's not just not liked by crypto people, but other very popular industries could be selling securities, if you actually apply the test. Tell me the flaw in the following, and if there is no flaw, why did the SEC never go after them to make an example:

All shows like Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon, etc. have been running, technically speaking, unregistered securities offerings throughout the world and United States, yet the SEC does nothing. They are textbook cases of the Howey Test:

1) People (kids, in fact!) buy Yu Gi Oh trading cards

2) There is an investment of money (either they nag their parents, or they actually spend a non-trivial proportion of their own life savings)

3) With an expectation of profit. Witness how many of them don't actually use the cards, but keep them in mint condition (and as we have seen SEC successfully argue in the recent case SEC vs LBRY, if even a few people buy with expectation of profit, then ALL those sales are securities).

4) From the efforts of others -- namely the producers of the show, and their promotion of Yu Gi Oh trading cards. Trading! Perhaps even selling!

5) There is definitely a common enterprise, that isn't even decentralized. The Yu Gi Oh show is produced in Japan and shown in the USA, and drives the sales of the cards. Cancel the show, and the cards fall in price. Yu Gi Oh Abridged series even lampooned this, to great comedic effect.

Oh those foreign-owned Japanese companies, preying on our kids selling them investment contracts! Do they really think the kids are sophisticated investors who think things through when they keep their mint-condition cards! Who will buy the top and be holding the bag after the show is canceled?

So being a textbook definition of Howey, why did the SEC never go after Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh and any of the other "merchandising" companies? How about Marvel with their mint-condition comics? Isn't that a "common enterprise" since some people buy comics for their investment value?

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#367

Tomorrow's Levine's Newsletter will be sweet :D Btw, is there a single bitcoin exchange who is operated by people that do not behave like teenagers?

Bisq.

Any centralized crypto exchange will ultimately end up being a scam because there is no reason for centralized exchanges to exist at all. There is no reason for anyone to hold your funds for more than what it necessary to complete a transaction. Because of this, there is really no money to be made.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's very hard for people to realize that. Thinking back on my career, there were jobs I stayed at too long because I was hoping things would turn around, that I could make more of a difference than I ultimately did. That was hard enough for me to realize as a low-level worker. It has to be a fair bit harder if you've got a fancy title and a fancy salary. "It is difficult to get a man to understand somethin…

Learning how to code fizzbuzz is hard for most people, it isn't for us. Learning basic corporate politics is hard for most people, not for prospective CEOs.

True, but I think that hurts them here. Corporate politics is about fitting into a status hierarchy and working your way up it. You exchange your own identity and concerns for that of the organization, and are rewarded with status and money.

A fake CEO like Zhao appeared to want here would be doing exactly the same thing he's been doing on the way up: rolling over for whatever the more powerful person wants. It's just that the stakes have quietly changed, with a sudden downside of "5-10 in a federal prison". As people like Caroline Ellison have recently realized.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#369
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long standing in history, long standing in diplomacy, long standing in actual freaking Louis XIV administration communique, long standing in practically everything. That's neat, the dead are welcome to their opinions. That doesn't change where or why it's used primarily by certain parties in their English facing media. > No offense but just because you people have a beef with Russia at the moment and they are using…

> That's neat, the dead are welcome to their opinions. That doesn't change where or why it's used primarily by certain parties in their English facing media. How does this justify removing an actual historic term from the vocabulary. > But it clearly has a different meaning in English. It doesnt: > I'll admit error if you can find a source, that's not Russian It amazes me how someone that claims any insight in the ma…

> How does this justify removing an actual historic term from the vocabulary.

Language mutates.

> It amazes me how someone that claims any insight in the matters of law can ask for 'sources' for such a thing. It just feels crazy. Here you go:

> https://www.jstor.org/stable/24517581

An entire article describing the: absence of its usage in scholarly contexts outside of specific cultural domains, and also simultaneously points out its usage as a ideological label.

I'll admit my error in being unable to find this, but it's not legal analysis specific, and the paper probably isn't what you were hoping for.

You probably should have picked something else.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#370
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, the only assets they have identified as securities here and the ones that were immediately obvious as securities (BNB etc.). They have made no statement regarding BTC, ETH, etc.

Gensler explicitly stated that BTC was a commodity about a year ago: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency/22/06/278669...

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