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Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

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Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#361

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

oblio wrote: post #313
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been waiting 10 years for this, gave up a while ago. Nobody wants to sell electric cars for cheap, why throw away the margins you can get by selling them for more? I don’t see a great opportunity for them to lower costs more on a cheaper model. Tesla already went through the exercise of making the cheaper version and people are paying premium prices for it anyway.

They will, soon. About 30 car manufacturers are entering the EV arena by 2026 and there isn't enough room for all of them at the top.

I don’t have data on this, but my subjective impression is that over the last several years, the number of manufacturers selling EVs and the price of EVs have both increased at the same time.

Of course, additional supply should normally decrease prices, but maybe there’s something weird going on. Here are some possible mechanisms I dreamed up:

1. Could the various manufacturers (collectively bringing lots of cash to break into the business) be bidding up the cost of some inputs? If high demand allows the market to bear higher prices, maybe everyone just ends up paying more?

2. As EV moves from “government environmental policy compliance program” to “luxury essential”, the types of cars on the market change. Just because it’s technically possible to make a cheap EV, doesn’t mean they will be readily available. By analogy, air-conditioned seats are no engineering marvel, but are usually only offered in upmarket vehicles, probably as a type of price discrimination.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#362

Post by alkonaut »

shusaku wrote: post #129
umeshunni wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had a 10 year head start on EVs (well, Hybrids), with the Prius and blew it. Worse: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/07/toyota-bet-wrong-on-evs...

How much does this really matter? I feel like Tesla is strong in the market because they figured out how to market an EV as a sports car. Toyota was never going to do that.

In the US it was the experience I think. Just like Uber in some markets where taxis were a shitty experience before, buying a car was (apparently) a crappy experience in the US before Tesla. But that's a very local phenomenon. Not sure about the sports car thing though. It's not much difference between a Model Y and a Mach-E or Polestar2 when it comes to this. Tesla did have the performance angle because they were early movers and compared to an ICE car their entire lineup is obviously looking pretty snappy.

Most buyers though just want a boring reliable car. If a known and Trusted brand made a car that was just 10% more expensive and 10% less attractive on specs than a Tesla, then Toyota would eat their lunch I think.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#363

Post by Dalewyn »

hef19898 wrote: post #354
Dalewyn wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars haven't changed in any fundamental manner for the better part of a century at the very least, so no cars are not so-called "technology" at this point. Not even the EV fad, because electric vehicles predate cars powered by combustion engines. What has changed is the technology behind controlling those cars. On that front, it surprises me in absolutely no way that Tesla, an information technology company, does bus…

Seriously? Try driving a car from, say, the late 80s and one from 2020. But ok, only software is tech, got it. So when exactly is mechanical engineering no longer a STEM discipline? Seriously, that take is simple hybris of the software crowd, and totally ignoring all the hardware tech all of us use all the time. But ok, a while ago the only measure of car quality was chassis panel fitting (if there ever was a truely…

A car has wheels, an engine/motor(s), and a mechanism to make the engine/motor(s) turn those wheels. This hasn't changed more or less since the invention of cars, regardless electric or combustion.

What has changed is the way the car is controlled. No longer are cars controlled by physically connected cables and wires that move to user input, cars are now controlled digitally by computers that respond to user and environmental input. This is where the technology is, and this is where tech companies like Tesla naturally and obviously have an edge on car companies like Toyota.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#364

Post by princevegeta89 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #286
princevegeta89 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic, but Musk v2.0 after the pandemic has been acting as a madman, and making pricing changes all over the board. We booked a Y, but the problem is they removed the $100 per month EAP subscription which could be a real beater for using it in an on-demand basis. Hopefully it comes back.

Is EAP "Enhanced Auto-Pilot" (self-driving)?

Yeah, it's the enhanced autopilot. It's not self- driving though, the only thing it does on its own is change lanes automatically and park itself and come out of a parking spot to get you

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#365

Post by simondotau »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #340
jillesvangurp wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sets Tesla apart right now is their manufacturing capability. They are out-competing everyone else right now on cost and scale. That's the difference between having really juicy margins on their cars produced large volume and the likes of BMW, Ford, and others actually selling EVs at a loss in comparatively tiny volumes. Every time Tesla lowers their pricing, everybody else takes a big hit. And while Tesla takes…

Is Toyota BYD’s JV partner in China? I think the BYD taxi I rode in was based off a Camry body, but it seems their JV partner is GAC, so it isn’t clear how that came to be.

Plenty of China-only car models are more than "inspired" from existing vehicle models.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#366

Post by Phrodo_00 »

llsf wrote: post #267
renewiltord wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things where it's quite clear to me there's news and there's immutable fact. My friends have Teslas and they have never brought it into the shop. Everyone I know with one says they don't trust FSD entirely but love the car and use AP all the time. It's like the iPhone. When it was released to years afterwards, enthusiasts breathlessly posted about how it was nothing like the Nokia whatever or the…

I am not sure to understand this dissonance... I owned a model 3 since April 2019, and also I had zero issue. The only time I went to the Tesla center it was to receive the car. It is so nice to not have to see a car dealer or gas station since April 2019. There is no way I could go back to another car. Even an EV, most of them are ICE cars with electric powertrain, with way too many buttons or dials, and no integrat…

Meanwhile, a coworker got a Model S and after 2 service visits ended up having to change his entire wiring harness. On a vehicle with less than 100 miles.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#367

Post by jeffrallen »

Then why the hell are they so expensive? I'd like to be all in on electric, but my car budget is 30k, why do they pile so much fancy crap on them? I want a go pedal, a stop pedal and a window crank. You can keep all the rest of the crap for the luxury cars.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#368

Post by Phrodo_00 »

Hamuko wrote: post #159
nradov wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Toyota sells sports cars.

Toyota's sports cars actually show pretty well at how adverse they are to making them. The Supra has a BMW engine, a BMW gearbox and a BMW interior with a BMW infotainment system, while the Toyota 86 is a joint project between Toyota and Subaru, with a Subaru engine and built in Subaru's plant.

What about the Corolla GR and Yaris GR, though?

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#369

Post by lb1lf »

Dalewyn wrote: post #253
elif wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the model Y isn't solid or reliable? I'm super happy with my 2021. I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops. A negative comparison on reliability with ICE just does not compute to me.

Tesla is first and foremost a technology company. Top notch tech, second-rate car. Toyota is first and foremost a car company. Top notch car, fifth-rate tech.

Toyota is first and foremost a manufacturing company; they go to absurd lengths to ensure their supply chain is as robust as can be and that the product they deliver is reliable. It just happens to be cars. (And forklifts. And probably lots of other stuff, too)

The downside, of course, being that most of their offerings appear quite, uh, boring.

Upside? Anecdotally, my 26 year old Toyota Land Cruiser (With 300k miles on it!) has cost me less in workshop visits and parts over the 140k miles I've owned it than the missus' 2016 VW Passat has over 30k miles of ownership. And the Passat isn't a bad car at all. Has the Land Cruiser beat on fuel economy, though.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#370

Post by AntiRemote »

pnw wrote: post #274
speedgoose wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the market. BMW doesn’t sell much ICE cars anymore in Norway, a western market considered a few years ahead the other north European markets.

Because Norway heavily subsidized EV with exemption from the 25% VAT tax as well as perks like free parking. Which is ironic given they are basically the Nordic Saudi Arabia.

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