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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#361

Post by timcavel »

screye wrote: post #285
barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

> side-loading of apps on Android 90%+ users are never going to use apks. If this ban kills the network effect (the R0 of the viral infection), then the last 10% aren't going to last long either.

[dead]

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#362

Post by paulddraper »

krapp wrote: post #359
paulddraper wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: Ninth Amendment isn't legally meaningful, just morally meaningful. The authors believed in natural God-given rights. They didn't want a certain rights being legally enforceable to give moral carte blanche to everything else. The legal applicability of the Ninth Amendment is similar to that the Preamble.

I have a hard time believing some constitutional amendments are foundational principles of legal doctrine and others are basically just flavor text.

This subject is precisely why the first ten amendments weren't in the original.

> One of the arguments the Federalists gave against the addition of a Bill of Rights, during the debates about ratification of the Constitution, was that a listing of rights could problematically enlarge the powers specified in Article One, Section 8 of the new Constitution by implication...This proposal ultimately led to the Ninth Amendment.

> Professor Laurence Tribe shares the view that this amendment does not confer substantive rights: "It is a common error, but an error nonetheless, to talk of 'ninth amendment rights.' The ninth amendment is not a source of rights as such; it is simply a rule about how to read the Constitution."

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

What's the alternative interpretation? A blank check to SCOTUS to strike down Congress citing whatever "rights" they thought of that morning?

Of course not, and thus Ninth Amendment has virtually never been cited in a (successful) court decision. For the simple reason that it doesn't state anything actually enforceable by the courts.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#363

Post by hippich »

mrighele wrote: post #250
barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

> It'd be very difficult for Montana to enforce the other piece of the TikTok ban I don't know if it is technically and legally feasible in Montana, but you "just" need to block the endpoints that the app uses to fetch the data. It is not foolproof, but given that ByteDance probably has interest in keeping doing business in the rest of the USA, at least for now, it would be fineable in case it was trying to avoid the…

Blocked in my house with few rules in pi.hole. so definitely not a technical problem.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#364

Post by npb »

Gollapalli wrote: post #341
knaik94 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the issue is that the government itself takes part in that marketplace as a seller and buyer. There's no resonable way to make laws for corporations while giving a pass to government agencies, it might be proposed but it would never pass. One of the biggest clients of Cambridge Analytica was the Trump campaign. I became disillusioned about hoping laws pass that protect user data after watching the TikTok hear…

If they are actually just using eye dilation for funny faces, I would be shocked. It's one of those things that's pretty telling physically. Whichever congressman asked that question was NOT dumb.

He absolutely was.

He asks "Can you say with 100% certainty that TikTok does not use the phone's camera to determine whether the content that elicits a pupil dilation should be amplified by the alogorithm?"

Chew: "The only face data that we collect is when you use the filters to have sunglasses on your face, we need to know where your eyes are."

Congressman: "Why do you need to know where the eyes are if you're not seeing if they're dilated??"

Apparently I can only find primary sources of this hearing on TikTok itself, so: https://www.tiktok.com/@jamiethisyoujeffries/video/721387823...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#365

Post by 1letterunixname »

mikece wrote: post #105

Tomorrow's story: "Residents of Montana discover VPNs and how to use them!" Between Utah and Montana the awareness and use of VPNs is rising among the non-security-conscious, and this is a good thing.

It still marks Montana as a third-world state without conventional freedoms.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#366

Post by 1letterunixname »

markdeloura wrote: post #90
jameshart wrote: post #88

The actual legislation: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billpdf/SB0419.pdf Seems facially unconstitutional. Will maybe force a proper court decision on whether the Bills of Attainder clause applies to corporations. Why are legislators so focused on banning TikTok, rather than regulating whatever it is that TikTok does that they don't like? Don't like data about your constituents being in the possession of a company wit…

Agreed! But it's always so much easier to ban and get credit for "protecting Americans" than do the work and build a solid base for the future. We should hold our politicians to a higher standard.

It's virtue signalling amongst white nationalists against their arch enemy: anyone not them.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#367

Post by 1letterunixname »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #170
logicchains wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Countries have the right to ban foreign adversaries This is the same logic that China uses to ban all western apps. Fortunately in the west, countries don't have rights, people do, and citizens generally have the right to run whatever software they want on the hardware devices they own. Governments that violate such rights get challenged in court.

Aren’t there other foreign goods that you can’t get in the United States?

Apart from the asinine war drugs, risky foods, weapons, counterfeit goods, and dangerous devices, ordinary prohibited goods aren't arbitrarily decided by fiat of Big Mother.

Kinder Surprise were banned due to the letter of the 1938 FFDCA law as "non-nutritive object".

There's usually a regulatory reason, such as homologation on automobiles. There are some protectionist laws around types of automobiles that can be imported.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#368

Post by sphars »

flagrant_taco wrote: post #357
mmh0000 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I avoided VPNs for years because they had no practical benefit. I live in Utah, and I would consider myself very technically adept. Previously, I didn't like "VPNs" because now I'm just routing all my traffic through another untrusted 3rd party. It's like choosing between two evils, would I prefer my ISP knows where I go, or some rando that I also have to pay? Worse, the "rando" (usually) requires a VPN app which…

> and Utah passed hyper-totalitarian laws I haven't actually seen anything about a Utah law yet, only the Montana ban of TikTok. What exactly does "hyper-totalitarian" mean compared to totalitarian, and what was the Utah law passed recently?

Utah has passed a law that requires age verification to view porn: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/utah-law-requiring-porn-...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#369

Post by int_19h »

stale2002 wrote: post #339
int_19h wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very convenient arrangement - first you get a couple of tech megacorps to monopolize the device and app store market to the point where the vast majority of apps are only ever published on their platforms and through their distribution channels. And then you regulate those megacorps and claim that this has nothing to do with restricting what the citizens have access to, even though the net result is the same.

If you don't like the fact that businesses can be regulated, then there is a whole bunch of other laws you are going to have to object to first. For example, very recently there was a ruling that allowed California to have food regulations for pork sold to its residents. Do you think that this food regulation is some sort of huge infringement on citizen rights? Because it isn't much different than other regulations t…

I don't mind regulation when it serves a useful purpose, but 1) this one does not, and 2) pretending that it doesn't affect individuals because it only directly targets companies is misleading. If you genuinely believe that TikTok should not be available to anyone, then argue that openly.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#370

Post by knaik94 »

npb wrote: post #364
Gollapalli wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are actually just using eye dilation for funny faces, I would be shocked. It's one of those things that's pretty telling physically. Whichever congressman asked that question was NOT dumb.

He absolutely was. He asks "Can you say with 100% certainty that TikTok does not use the phone's camera to determine whether the content that elicits a pupil dilation should be amplified by the alogorithm?" Chew: "The only face data that we collect is when you use the filters to have sunglasses on your face, we need to know where your eyes are." Congressman: "Why do you need to know where the eyes are if you're not s…

And from the c-span youtube channel, timestamp ~2hr 14m 50s.

https://youtu.be/_E-4jtTFsO4?t=8090

You can click the three dot menu next to the share button to pull up the autogenerated transcript or offical CC on c-span, on youtube. I don't think you can search in the yt app like you can on desktop/mobile. The comments section there speaks volumes about the divide between those congressman and younger generations.

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