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Fuck being productive

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Re: Fuck being productive

#361

Post by afwf1 »

kortilla wrote: post #357
m_rpn wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the problem is this: company wants you to "show you are performing at an higher level" before giving you higher pay or a promotion, but this can take years in a mid to big sized company, and even performing at 200% your peers doesn't guarantee you get what you deserve, since most of the promotions in structured companies are not tied to performance whatsoever, but to networking and being supporters of y…

What if I were to tell you performing at 200% is not a good way to get a promotion? I will promote the person with regular output and an eye for outcomes, doing the right thing, improving process, etc over the one who just blindly runs at full steam all of the time. If you think you’re at 200% and not getting recognized, step back and evaluate how much it’s really helping. If you think it is, write out the argument y…

> I will promote the person with regular output and an eye for outcomes, doing the right thing, improving process, etc over the one who just blindly runs at full steam all of the time.

I would consider that to be impactful and part of performing at 200%, yet it still won't necessarily lead to promotions. Most managers don't care about the team or company, and definitely don't promote based on stuff like "improve process"

Re: Fuck being productive

#362

Post by afwf1 »

kortilla wrote: post #359
lisasays wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who take ownership and initiative for the things they work on get quickly promoted. I can tell you from experience as a human being -- and having given many, many friends a shoulder to cry on over the years, in regard to this very issue: that this is of course what management always says in regard to how things work. But the reality on the ground (beneath the confident pronouncements, and fake glassdoor review…

>Right, and it's always, always, always on the employee side -- is what you're basically saying. No it’s not. Jumping to negative conclusions and engaging in bad faith definitely is a way to get passed over though. There are lots of reasons, both managerial issues and employee issues, for someone to get passed over despite having the right mindset. My point wasn’t that it’s a guaranteed path to getting promotions. My…

> If they don’t, there is usually some other issue (difficultly to work with) explicitly holding them back.

> There are lots of reasons, both managerial issues and employee issues, for someone to get passed over despite having the right mindset.

You're contradicting yourself. Not surprising, lying is one way people get promoted and turn others into clock punchers.

Re: Fuck being productive

#363

Post by afwf1 »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #360
lisasays wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who take ownership and initiative for the things they work on get quickly promoted. I can tell you from experience as a human being -- and having given many, many friends a shoulder to cry on over the years, in regard to this very issue: that this is of course what management always says in regard to how things work. But the reality on the ground (beneath the confident pronouncements, and fake glassdoor review…

What Kortilla said matches my experience at a few companies. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there are different/worse ecosystems out there. Also just working harder doesn’t guarantee anything, which some employees misunderstand—communicate with your manager! You need to work on the right things and understand leveling expectations and promo cadences, and of course your manager is hugely important.

"leveling expectations" are mostly pure nonsense, you should know that. People are promoted for visibility in the eyes of management and delivering the final product, but not real ownership of the actual work that goes into advocating for and building the correct solution (which management is often clueless about, since it involves details which may seem minute but are essential to producing real value).

Re: Fuck being productive

#364

Post by therealdrag0 »

afwf1 wrote: post #363
therealdrag0 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Kortilla said matches my experience at a few companies. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there are different/worse ecosystems out there. Also just working harder doesn’t guarantee anything, which some employees misunderstand—communicate with your manager! You need to work on the right things and understand leveling expectations and promo cadences, and of course your manager is hugely important.

"leveling expectations" are mostly pure nonsense, you should know that. People are promoted for visibility in the eyes of management and delivering the final product, but not real ownership of the actual work that goes into advocating for and building the correct solution (which management is often clueless about, since it involves details which may seem minute but are essential to producing real value).

I don’t doubt that can be the case. But I’ve been promoted multiple times with work in my package that was purely maintenance and scalability work. Maybe I got lucky having management who appreciates these things. I’ve also seen people rejected from promo because they only focused on building and not on other leveling expectations like broader impact, anticipating problems, etc.

Re: Fuck being productive

#365

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

kortilla wrote: post #272
lisasays wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My spin would be: "This is how companies kneecap employees, by forcing them to think this way." "But how could this ever be possible, in a field with high salaries and a permanent shortage of skilled workers?", you ask. By constantly punishing us for caring. By continually providing shitty office space, and bullshit-driven work cultures and interview rituals. And just plain lying, toxic managers and co-workers to dea…

I’m telling you from experience as a manager that this is wrong. People who take ownership and initiative for the things they work on get quickly promoted. If they don’t, there is usually some other issue (difficultly to work with) explicitly holding them back. I have seen many otherwise great engineers take the mindset of “I’m paid to do X so I don’t care about making sure X is the right thing” and they just sit at…

My own experience tells me otherwise. Passionate workers get taken advantage of. Difficult coworkers still get promoted. And promotions can have far more to do with office politics than any form of merit. If your own experience is an honest exception, then you're either still naive or else profoundly lucky, in which case you have my envy.

Re: Fuck being productive

#366

Post by mathgladiator »

I'm at a cross roads because I'm trying to sort out an intern program.

On one end, I don't want to work too hard now that I'm old. However, I don't have to work too hard as I worked crazy hard for a long decade with massive growth and discipline saving.

When I reflect on interns, I want to hire people that are willing to suffer for the craft. I feel it is morally wrong to encourage a low key lifestyle in the young as it wastes potential.

At core, the question I'm asking is how to find people that desire greatness in life.

Re: Fuck being productive

#367

Post by jacobyoder »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #269
jacobyoder wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. Have done this for the last several years. Wife stopped working a few years back due to an injury (but no disability or other income for better or worse), so I've been the sole breadwinner the last few years. I've typically been bringing in between $150k and $220k (gross), and we've spent most of the last ... 7-8 years not doing or buying much. Min obligations each month are now around $3000/month (mortg…

$150k and $220k (gross) + semi-rural southern US. Impressive!

Selling time (hourly), I can't keep it up forever, and 10 years ago it was more like $100-$120k. I already see this year slowing down some, but it might be back to more like $120k, but on a part time effort, which will be nice in its own way. I was regularly putting in 50+ hours/week, and it's just not something I could maintain long term.

Re: Fuck being productive

#368

Post by mcv »

listenallyall wrote: post #351
mcv wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already took that 20% pay cut. Our pay hasn't gone up with our productivity in decades. According to Keynes, we should have been working 15 hours per week by now. We're not, because we're not reaping the rewards of our work. It's all gone to the rich. That is the big thing we need to reverse. I'm working 4 days a week, and that's working very well for me. So is my wife. So is my brother, and are several of my fri…

Of course you're entitled to a better life, a great life. The "absurd" part comes from the expectation that an employer is just going to wake up one day and decide you don't need to come in on Fridays (or whatever 5th day is). Perhaps you can arrange a 4x10 schedule or, as I stated, take a pay cut -- that's great if it works for you and for the employer (or maybe you don't have an employer). But the OP was seeking a…

I think most people spend their free time watching television because they lack the will or energy to do anything else; work has sucked it out of them.

Re: Fuck being productive

#369

Post by hipjiveguy »

justnotworthit wrote: post #146
sesteel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This deserves to be upvoted more. Trading your life for financial gain has diminishing returns. You'd think everybody's goal would to be free of servitude.

Most people's goal is security, I wager. But here's a quote you might like: “Self-sufficiency is the greatest wealth of all, and the greatest fruit of self-sufficiency is freedom.” – Epicurus

Nice quote, thanks for posting.... but, did Epicurus have a family, or care about anyone else? Makes me wonder...

Anyone can pursue their passions, and realize their dreams, but you have to at least consider the affect on your wife or children.

Now this is not saying don't get married, lol.

It's just about choices. Realize that all we think and do, is so subjective.

You could be the smartest guy in the world, or the most caring guy in the world.

Which would you say matters more?

Intellect fades. Youth fades. Life gives way to death.

These are not bad things, but they are natural, as we come to understand.

But in all of this, you have to be you, and not your parents.

Never forget, your parents were children, and probably are in some ways, as the are with you, for your entire life.

Forgive them, and yourself, but never forget, you can always love and help others.

If this life had no point, and was "meaningless", then taking care of others is really more important than anyone.

Every careful thought - it is special, and a beautiful exception.

Re: Fuck being productive

#370

Post by m_rpn »

kortilla wrote: post #357
m_rpn wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the problem is this: company wants you to "show you are performing at an higher level" before giving you higher pay or a promotion, but this can take years in a mid to big sized company, and even performing at 200% your peers doesn't guarantee you get what you deserve, since most of the promotions in structured companies are not tied to performance whatsoever, but to networking and being supporters of y…

What if I were to tell you performing at 200% is not a good way to get a promotion? I will promote the person with regular output and an eye for outcomes, doing the right thing, improving process, etc over the one who just blindly runs at full steam all of the time. If you think you’re at 200% and not getting recognized, step back and evaluate how much it’s really helping. If you think it is, write out the argument y…

Let's not be too picky about wording now, "performing at 200%" can easily incorporate what you are saying, and by the way all are still some valid points.

But still i can do all of what you are saying and not even being considered for promotion in 20 years, everybody knows this and there is no point in being delusional or forcing narratives, just strive to be the "best possible version of yourself" if you really want it, or just do what you're paid for and that's still ok!

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