Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla • Hacker News Board

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#361

Post by NayamAmarshe » Wed, May 03, 2023, 7:05 PM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #351

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really think we'd be better off with Chromium becoming the one and only web engine, with Google singlehandedly deciding what web features are implemented and how? What makes you think they're not doing that now and Mozilla's existence even matters in this case? Funny enough, they're only keeping Mozilla alive to avoid any antitrust cases. > would be able to keep Google from turning the web into its own close…

> What makes you think they're not doing that now and Mozilla's existence even matters in this case? Funny enough, they're only keeping Mozilla alive to avoid any antitrust cases. Firefox developers are still in the standards organisations and their position on new proposals does have some weight on the way they're written. Google is funding Mozilla for good PR, it's not like they're in any real danger from antitrust…

> What was that about ethics again?

We should not be talking about ethics if we're talking about Mozilla either. From shameless extension backdoors to not blocking trackers from Google on purpose, it's all over the place when it comes to ethics and privacy. At least Brave directly challenges Big Tech by making bolder decisions to block them instead of being afraid like Firefox, enabling trackers and not providing any privacy against Google.

What Brave has done with respect to privacy features, Firefox couldn't even do it in decades:

https://privacytests.org

https://brave.com/privacy-updates/

I do understand that Brave is a chromium fork and that they depend on Chromium for patches but this is still a FOSS browser that is independently funded and has better statistical chances of survival than Firefox. Brave's MAU is very good, almost doubling every year since its first release. On top of that, they're the only existing company that challenges Big Tech search engine monopoly by actually providing a great privacy focused search engine that is also independently indexed.

Firefox is a series of unfulfilled promises and failures. An untapped potential ruined by management.

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#362

Post by JohnBooty » Wed, May 03, 2023, 7:46 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #360

JohnBooty wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you. Does the issue persist on other networks? I wonder if it's a DNS/proxy/something issue. I don't know the particulars, but Firefox does some talking over the network at startup. It checks for browser updates, blocklist updates, captive portal detection, etc. I am not certain which if any of these happen at startup, and AFAIK none of these are blocking (but I admittedly have only the vaguest knowledge he…

> Does the issue persist on other networks? I've not tried with those machines on a different network. I assume it's related to networking in some way. My network is more complex than most. All of these machines are Linux (Debian). I haven't experienced this on Windows machines at work (although I also haven't noticed that Firefox had become any faster on them).

I wonder what happens if you launch FF with your wifi disabled and/or the cable unplugged?

On MacOS and Windows (I can try this on PopOS as well if you like) FF launches instantly with no complaints if the network is down. Which tells me that FF seems to properly handle situations where things are merely unreachable.

The fact that it's hanging for you implies to me that perhaps FF is getting some kind of malformed response from... something on your network. A firewall, a proxy, I don't know.

    I've not tried with those machines on a different 
    network. I assume it's related to networking in some 
    way. My network is more complex than most.

I don't know if you're open to feedback on this or not, but it feels disingenuous to state "Firefox is unusably slow" without noting that it appears to be some specific interaction between Firefox and your network. If it is a network issue, it certainly sounds like it is something FF should handle more gracefully/informatively, but that is a different matter from "Firefox unusably slow."

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#363

Post by 878654Tom » Wed, May 03, 2023, 7:53 PM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #33

878654Tom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you expect this from Mozilla but not Microsoft, Google, Apple,...?

Is this a serious question? Mozilla is mostly known for its web browser, and historically this was always the case. Microsoft is known for its OS and office suite, Google is known for search (and many other things), and Apple for its iDevices. None of these companies has ever been a browser-first company, so I wouldn't expect any of them to focus primarily on building a web browser.

Is the focus of Mozilla not primarely their browser anymore because of this acquisition?

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#364

Post by 878654Tom » Wed, May 03, 2023, 7:55 PM UTC

cxr wrote: post #39

878654Tom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you expect this from Mozilla but not Microsoft, Google, Apple,...?

Which of those three corporations are non-profits chartered for a specific purpose with an additional implied social contract with their contributors and users?

And is Mozilla suddenly not focussing anymore on Firefox after this acquisition?

If I remember correctly the Mozilla foundation is more than Firefox. You also have Thunderbird for example.

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#365

Post by 878654Tom » Wed, May 03, 2023, 7:56 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #116

878654Tom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you expect this from Mozilla but not Microsoft, Google, Apple,...?

Because Mozilla is supposed to be an alternative to Microsoft, Google, Apple,.. and not just "the same but with less money".

And how does this acquisition change that?

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#366

Post by EMM_386 » Wed, May 03, 2023, 8:24 PM UTC

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #285

EMM_386 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the browser really needs a lot more hands and funding I had been using Firefox since 2002, when it was called Phoenix. I switched to a Chromium-based browser because the performance difference was noticable enough, and I am in the browser often enough, to finally throw in the towel and switch. They have a huge amount of money coming in from Google. Why is this going to acquisitions like this and not towards str…

How long ago did you switch? I also switched around 2010 or so, but since a few years the performance is definitely acceptable and I’ve been using it for like 6 years now

I switched last year, so 22 years of Firefox.

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#367

Post by NavinF » Wed, May 03, 2023, 8:37 PM UTC

gsich wrote: post #341

NavinF wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you represent a trivially small fraction of users. My desktop doesn't have wifi either, but most modern motherboards come with a wifi card built in. Not to mention the majority of visitors to mainstream sites are on mobile and a good chunk of the rest are on a laptop. Also Firefox has 3% market share so we're talking about a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction.

Most? More likely than not you will not have such a card in a mainboard.

Yes, most. Look at X470 or z590 mobos that are 2 generations old. The majority have wifi though I personally don't see the point.

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#368

Post by JohnFen » Wed, May 03, 2023, 8:56 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #362

JohnFen wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does the issue persist on other networks? I've not tried with those machines on a different network. I assume it's related to networking in some way. My network is more complex than most. All of these machines are Linux (Debian). I haven't experienced this on Windows machines at work (although I also haven't noticed that Firefox had become any faster on them).

I wonder what happens if you launch FF with your wifi disabled and/or the cable unplugged? On MacOS and Windows (I can try this on PopOS as well if you like) FF launches instantly with no complaints if the network is down. Which tells me that FF seems to properly handle situations where things are merely unreachable. The fact that it's hanging for you implies to me that perhaps FF is getting some kind of malformed re…

> it feels disingenuous to state "Firefox is unusably slow" without noting that it appears to be some specific interaction between Firefox and your network.

I don't think it's disingenuous because it's only Firefox that has this issue. Every other browser is fine.

I think there's an edge-condition bug in Firefox that I'm triggering that causes this. I've spent quite a while trying to work this out before giving up entirely. However -- since it's really not at all hard to find people who have performance problems with Firefox generally, there is something going on with it. And it's something that (based on interactions with the dev team) Mozilla seems not willing to worry much about.

All that said, I try very hard to be fair to Mozilla and Firefox, in part because I've been a huge backer of Firefox since the very beginning, and still care.

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#369

Post by nl » Thu, May 04, 2023, 1:37 AM UTC

swores wrote: post #344

nl wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and/but there was real concern then that they'd stop supporting it which would have killed Mac use in corporate environments where specific version of office compatibility was a huge issue (As anyone who remembers the Office 2.0 vs Office 6 update on Windows will remember).

> As anyone who remembers the Office 2.0 vs Office 6 update on Windows will remember I think you're misremembering or mistyping the numbers, unless Wikipedia is wrong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Office

Ah it was Word 2.0 vs Word 6.0 (which was roughly Office 3.0 vs Office 4.0)

Word 2.0 shipped on a lot of Windows NT computers with Office 3.0 and these were the days when there weren't forced updates and you had to pay so it hung around for ages.

Re: Fakespot Is Acquired by Mozilla

#370

Post by cma » Thu, May 04, 2023, 2:34 AM UTC

hammyhavoc wrote: post #182

wiseowise wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand your point, I disagree that just because majority is using touch, you shouldn’t care about minority using keyboard.

Why? It's not an accessibility feature, and desktop OS versions of Firefox still exist. Choosing a hobbled Android device and expecting desktop-class experience is a user issue. Will it drive worthwhile value? No. Are there more pressing matters? Yes. With that said, it's open source. Why don't you implement it yourself? Meanwhile the rest of us have long since moved on from Firefox.

Samsung phones can do things like wireless beam a desktop over to a TV. You can then use a bluetooth keyboard with it fine with Chrome, but not Firefox.