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The Windows 11 Trash Party

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Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#361

Post by minimaul »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #334
sgt wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux still can't do high/mixed DPI out of the box?

Not until extremely recently[1] for fractional scaling. In my books, this is non-working HiDPI, because on Windows, my 15.6-inch full-HD notebook display is at 1.25× scaling, and my 27-inch UHD monitor is at 1.75× scaling. And since this is so recent, most DEs don't have support for this yet. I was using mixed-DPI set-ups with no fanfare with Windows 8 , 11 years ago. And Windows had initial HiDPI support with Window…

I used to do this on Windows and found a ton of apps either broke their layout or got blurry when moved between monitors, so I wouldn't class Windows as 'ideal' here either :/

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#362

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

nstart wrote: post #316
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question - what do you like about Windows? I used windows from 3.1, NT, 95, 2000 until XP, at which point I switched to Linux for my main OS. Obviously I used all the later versions of Windows too for work, but each version seemed worse and less usable (7 was ok I guess).

I dont know how to explain it. I’ve used all major OS’s including a couple of flavors of Linux. I just love windows. 11 is pretty awesome for me where I use it on my surface pro 8 and it’s just really nice especially with touch. Touch is definitely a huge part of my workflow too to the point that when I sit at my desktop I sometimes try to touch the screen. There are so many tiny quality of life things like being abl…

I would quibble about the fact that the screenshot functionality was stolen from macOS, but the thing that really kills me is your comment about File Explorer. My impression, after decades of Windows and now a decade of macOS, is that you just don't have to spend as much time with Finder in macOS as you do with Explorer on Windows. There's something about working on a Mac that simply alleviates a lot of the work of fiddling with files like you have to do in Windows. Maybe it's because I don't deal with Office docs much any more. I don't know. Anyone else feel this difference?

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#363

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #144
emodendroket wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, ignoring our personal preferences, which of those two halves of the business sounds like it's sustaining the other? I see a bunch of (cool) tools in one column, some of which admittedly might encourage people to use Windows or other paid MS products, albeit less so than in the past; in the other I see a lot of solid recurring revenue streams.

Azure is Microsoft's biggest money-maker, not the inclusion of ads in Windows. Windows itself drives 12% of Microsoft sales[1]. [1]: https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/

I long for the day when someone will dissect the numbers, and show how much of Windows' vaunted desktop share is due to corporate licenses. I think it would show that -- when people are buying with their own money -- they're preferring Macs 2-to-1 over PC's now.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#364

Post by minimaul »

hooby wrote: post #233
charles_f wrote: post #100

There's been a long observed tradition that every other version of Windows is trash. 3.1, 98, XP, 7, 10 were good^, 95, ME, Vista, 8 and now 11 are trash. This one is a bit of a fun one because the bits described here are almost sabotage level bad. You can deactivate that pretty easily so it's not a big deal; there's some other clunky ui interface notably in settings where you can still find 4 or 5 different generati…

> There's been a long observed tradition that every other version of Windows is trash. 3.1, 98, XP, 7, 10 were good^, 95, ME, Vista, 8 and now 11 are trash. What about Windows 2000?

Windows 2000 wasn't a consumer version of Windows, so gets left out.

edit: pity, because I think all-in-all it's one of the best versions of Windows I ever used. Very fast, no junk to get in the way, tremendously clear UI, very compatible with games (even weird ones developed for Win9x), etc.

I used it over Windows XP for as long as I could!

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#365

Post by tonyedgecombe »

hyperman1 wrote: post #239

In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme, DRM. There were complaints, but users took it because where else to go? And to be honest, XP was still an upgrade coming from 98 and 2000 was not available for end users. Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Windows 7 was better, but still an UI downgrade.…

>Users will take it, because where else to go.

Until they don't, then there will be nowhere for MS to go.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#367

Post by joshspankit »

With AI now being a real thing, I’m looking through all these “how it’s done” UI elements through a new lens.

Like weather: Even when I want to know the local weather do I want to watch it in real time? No. I’m having to watch it in real time because I need to predict how it’s going to affect my plans. I’d much rather have an AI do the real-time stuff and nudge me to say “Hey, there’s rain about an hour away” or “The park is definitely going to be great. Check in and make sure everyone is on the same page”.

There are still some things I do still want as a part of the UI, and even at AI’s best I still want a UI, but so much of that information overload is now functionally irrelevant.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#368

Post by red-iron-pine »

joshspankit wrote: post #367

With AI now being a real thing, I’m looking through all these “how it’s done” UI elements through a new lens. Like weather: Even when I want to know the local weather do I want to watch it in real time? No. I’m having to watch it in real time because I need to predict how it’s going to affect my plans. I’d much rather have an AI do the real-time stuff and nudge me to say “Hey, there’s rain about an hour away” or “The…

Sounds similar to the "digital concierge" thing that was posted here last week.

Which honestly sounds pretty good.

Fine line between digital concierge, nagging, and something like out of the (dystopian) short story "Manna", though (available here: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1)

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#370

Post by red-iron-pine »

dacryn wrote: post #253
dustedcodes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not that different. Look at Azure and tell me with a straight face that it’s not the biggest clusterfuck of all time. Look at it. Azure is the single biggest reason why .NET developers have high blood pressure around the world. Azure is so bad people actively filter out jobs where the company uses Azure. The only other software which triggers this much aversion in people is MS Teams.

it's insane how good Microsoft sales people are, if they manage to make Azure sell this well when GCP and AWS are objectively better at basically everything, including cost considerations.

Bundling licenses was what finally levered our management to Azure at a previous job. They didn't care what the OpEx was as long insane MSSQL license costs went down -- and they did. Azure was a PITA in all other ways, but they achieved that metric.

I also assumed "referral agent awards" also played a part.

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