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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#361

Post by VirusNewbie »

basisword wrote: post #82
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

The number of high profile tech bros on Twitter using the death to further their own views was disgraceful. SF may have big issues but using someone’s murder to further your political beliefs is horrible. I’m sure we won’t hear any retraction though.

whenever someone is shot, is talking about gun control using someone's murder to further political beliefs?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#362

Post by kaycebasques »

JieJie wrote: post #268
kaycebasques wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really do some amazing reporting. Based on the fact that this is the first article I'm seeing on this topic, it seems that Mission Local may have got the scoop [1] on the Chronicle and other big newspapers on this high-profile topic. That is a big deal for journalists (if I recall correctly) because it means you're doing better original reporting and you're more connected to the neighborhood. [1] https://grammar…

This is great writing, "the abrupt closure of the mid-market Whole Foods, leaving San Franciscans just eight other Whole Foods within city limits". What a scoop, brilliantly delivered.

Edit: I thought that this comment was tangential and sarcastic but I was incorrect.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#363

Post by tedunangst »

rajup wrote: post #199
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that's so weird about that confirmation bias is that some folks held these inconsistent views even within a single HN comment . There was a comment that was on that initial thread where the commenter said that they heard from "very well placed sources in the US Intelligence community this is probably a hit", and the commenter still went on to blame San Francisco for being a "crime ridden shithole". I respon…

I don’t understand, is it that hard for both to be true?

If it was a hit, it would have happened anywhere, so why are they blaming SF specifically?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#364

Post by davidgerard »

stickfigure wrote: post #135
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that. I lived in SF for ~15 years, experienced multiple car breakins (when I had a car) and one weird guy who walked up to me on the street and said "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" (which I somehow calmly ignored). For the record, I didn't com…

No, it would be the narrative where multiple HN commenters in the previous thread took this as a launching point to call for a full authoritarian crackdown of the homeless.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#365

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

azinman2 wrote: post #220
bsuvc wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I don't get it. Are you saying that Republican policies are ruining the city? Or are you saying that the established laws and regulations have nothing to do with the problem at all?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#366

Post by projectazorian »

reddog wrote: post #143
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

> including current faves Austin and Miami Austin has 2.57 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters per 100K. Same year, SF has 6.35 per 100K. So SF is twice as bad as Austin. Your right about Miami though. But 6.35 isn't bad. The murder rate in St Louis (for comparision to the US city with the worst) is 66.07 per 100K. And Colima Mexico (worst in the world maybe) is 182 murders per 100K. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Also worth noting that SF contains most of the Bay Area’s high-crime areas, yet the city limits are much smaller than those of most major American cities. So that skews the crime rate upwards. There’s a similar dynamic at play with several other American cities.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#367

Post by kolinko »

cemerick wrote: post #172
stickfigure wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that. I lived in SF for ~15 years, experienced multiple car breakins (when I had a car) and one weird guy who walked up to me on the street and said "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" (which I somehow calmly ignored). For the record, I didn't com…

The only thing I'm "championing" (just pointing out, really) is that certain populations seem to enjoy using anecdotal tragedy to promote their own quasi-apocalyptic worldview re: some American cities, despite all available data contradicting that worldview. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the update on your locale, and your own stories of property crime and/or non-criminal (yet perhaps unnerving?) personal intera…

Considering that a large population of sf tech is migrants, many people, myself included, compare it not to other American cities but to European and Asian ones.

I would say that the comparison is apt - since we compare the tech/science successes of SF with the rest of the world, we should also compare the crime rates with it.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#368

Post by cool_dude85 »

jmull wrote: post #359
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

> I wonder if all the many commenters who had preemptively blamed homeless or poor people for this would change their mind in the light of this, You should understand that San Fransisco has serious problems with homelessness and crime. While some people may have been mistaken about the root cause in this particular case, that doesn't invalidate their very real concerns. > all tech executives to be forcibly housed in…

>You should understand that San Fransisco has serious problems with homelessness and crime. While some people may have been mistaken about the root cause in this particular case, that doesn't invalidate their very real concerns.

It's true that the perfidious Other did not commit this particular crime even though I speculated immediately that They did. However, keep in mind that they are still a big problem! Me being wrong doesn't mean they're not!

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#369

Post by whack »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

I agree with you that we shouldn't be using anecdotal evidence to drive outrage and public policy. There are a whole host of biases and errors that pop up when using anecdotal evidence as you pointed out.

The flip side is that people have zero interest in statistics-based discussions. Even supposedly data-driven engineers. If you find that property-crime has increased by X%, of which Y% can be attributed to specific public policy decisions, you will get zero traction if you frame this as a data-driven discussion. People grok stories. They may somewhat understand statistics and numbers, but they don't grok it. Hence why almost all discussions revolve around anecdotes with some statistics provided as supporting evidence.

Ironically, for-profit companies are far better at having data-driven discussions and decisions. I have little hope that this will ever be the case in public discourse.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#370

Post by quest88 »

bigtex88 wrote: post #290
cemerick wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I'm "championing" (just pointing out, really) is that certain populations seem to enjoy using anecdotal tragedy to promote their own quasi-apocalyptic worldview re: some American cities, despite all available data contradicting that worldview. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the update on your locale, and your own stories of property crime and/or non-criminal (yet perhaps unnerving?) personal intera…

What an absolutely asinine thing to champion. How does that do any good to actually help with "policy" as your initial comment seems to intend? All you seem to be doing is acting like "I'm smarter than all of you!" SF is a dangerous city. That seems to be the main point of concern here.

No one is denying crime is a problem. The point is that people were quick attribute this tragedy to yet another unprovoked attack, which turned out to be false. But it fit the narrative, so it was believed to be true.
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