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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

361–370 of 741 posts

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#361
This is a frustrating issue because there's so much bad information and poor arguments that has caught on. Top of this list is that Meta is behind it. Meta doesn't have this kind of pull. Meta also doesn't want the Commerce Secretary to be able to ban platforms because that could be weaponized against all of Meta's properties in the future.

If you want to point the finger at anyone, Google might be a better bet. Google has been very good at keeping out of the public eye, like successfully arguing "it's the algorithm" about search results to gloss over the human element in that.

But there are several aspects to this that have varying levels of validity:

1. China doesn't provide reciprocal access to their market to US companies like FB, IG and Youtube. To me, this alone is justification to ban Chinese companies. You need go no further than this;

2. Data protection is a real issue. Having data within US jurisdiction is a valid concern but as many have pointed out, this would better be served by a Federal data protection law, which will never happen. Tiktok has been singled out here;

3. As much as the US government can gain access to data on FB, IG, etc, there is still a rule of law. Even FISA courts have a process. There is not even a pretense of separation between Chinese companies and the Chinese state;

4. Influence by any company through the algorithm is a valid concern. This is more of a concern with a foreign adversary but is still an issue with US companies. We've seen how quickly misinformation can spread (and affect elections) since at least 2016;

5. Some point out you can just get this data from data brokers. Data brokers sell audiences. In some cases you can tie that back to an individual but the platform has way more data than any broker would. I can't go to a broker and get WSJ journalist DMs. The platform owner obviously can;

6. The risk of a foreign government targeting individuals with 0-days and the like is a real one. We've seen Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian governments target journalists. It's a valid concern.

But instead of a nuanced conversation we get reactionary "China = bad" antics from some of the dumbest people (in Congress) I've ever witnessed.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which section is that in? I didn't read anything that way but maybe I need to re-read

Re-reading, I may be mistaken. S.686 is still in committee and it looks like S.1143 looks to have passed the Senate. I read an article this morning that suggested S.686 is meant to be a rider, can't find it now.

Ah okay, thanks!

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, it has nothing to do with "talking about how 'kids' might be influenced by an algorithm", because if it did, they would be trying to ban Facebook, Instagram, and other social media services that have the exact same effect as TikTok on children. This is really meant to be a punch in the fight against China. US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China and their qu…

> [The] US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China. Yeah, except that any business can just buy that information. I can buy your day-to-day movements for dirt cheap. I own a non-American company (though I'm still an American citizen, but that isn't a factor), and it is insanely cheap to get information about any American you want. Hell, BingBot will tell you all about…

Seems to be a suspicious number of people in this thread purposefully "point missing" and slinging whataboutisms instead of talking about what the CCP (specifically) can do with that type of information...

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, it has nothing to do with "talking about how 'kids' might be influenced by an algorithm", because if it did, they would be trying to ban Facebook, Instagram, and other social media services that have the exact same effect as TikTok on children. This is really meant to be a punch in the fight against China. US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China and their qu…

Well yeah, ByteDance directly takes orders from the Chinese government. Big Tech can also take orders from the American government, but America is bound by the rule of law and isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps so it's way better

America’s political system also has plenty of problems, so any absolute comparison is easy to pick at or "what-about", as other commenters are doing.

But more to the point here, the American government responds to pressure from the electorate and U.S.-based stakeholders, which the Chinese government by and large does not.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, ByteDance directly takes orders from the Chinese government. Big Tech can also take orders from the American government, but America is bound by the rule of law and isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps so it's way better

> but [the USA] is bound by the rule of law Of course it is! and storks deliver babies and the moon is yellow because it's made of cheese. > [The USA] isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps It's actively imprisoning millions in prisons. What's the difference between a prison and a concentration camp? Perhaps the guards twirling their evil mustache more?

You are able to write your comment criticizing the US government (Congress) because we follow the rule of law and that rule of law includes the 1st Amendment guarantee to freedom of speech and expression.

China has no such protections and guarantees.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#366

The media coverage of this (and the title of this submission, which I argue should be changed to the actual title of the bill) are really confusing everyone - both in here and elsewhere. There is a Senate bill[1] called "S.85 - No TikTok on United States Devices Act", which is very short and seems to only do one thing, and that's ban TikTok. This bill is in committee. There is another Senate bill[2], called "S.686 -…

1. (D) TIMING.—The term “covered transaction” includes a current, past, or potential future transaction. 2. (I) A group, subgroup, or other association or organization whether or not organized for profit. [like an OSS project on github?] 3. (1) IN GENERAL.—It shall be unlawful for a person to violate, attempt to violate, conspire to violate, or cause a violation of any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure…

> All their "transactions" are now subject to approval of Secretary of Commerce.

That's half the point. A lot of people here are saying "Facebook will just sell your data to China".

Here's the line saying they can't.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to move past the "TikTok = people dancing" stage of discussion. TikTok has expanded to be the dominant short form video platform for every interest, niche, and micro niche you can imagine that exists, and even ones you can't imagine. Please anyone reading this comment replace "TikTok = people dancing" with "TikTok = feed + discovery for short form video tailored to your specific interests no matter how niche"…

That's fair - but if that's the case, how is that actually different from YouTube, Instagram, or any number of other platforms? It appears in two ways: 1) TikTok is really good at what they do. 2) They are a Chinese-owned company. It certainly feels like if it weren't for #2, they would be praised for their innovation and held up as a great American success story. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be skepticism in…

While I think some of it is the UX, the main thing in TikTok's favour is the massive number of people creating concise, interesting content for it.

YouTube videos are frequently 30-120 seconds of relevant content padded to 10-15 minutes. Most TikTok videos are close to just those 30-120 relevant seconds.

If Congress bans it, they'll probably lose the trust and interest of a massive percentage of Americans under the age of 30.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are webcam feeds all over the earth, most can be found by just scanning ip addresses. There are even websites dedicated to finding them. You’d probably have a better dataset than TikTok simply because it is more realistic. The best part: it is free.

No you said a comparable dataset to TikTok was commercially available. Few random webcams which would be illegal to take video from is not substantive and does not provide any insight into their interests, likes etc. The whole issue with TikTok is that the Chinese government is able to personally identify people who disagree with them.

I’m not in the business of selling datasets. But it also sounds like you don’t know what problem you’re actually trying to solve yet. That’s a problem I can help you with.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#370
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Washington Post data, there were 393,289 students enrolled at schools during shootings in the past 10 years[0]. (Note this is total enrollment, not those present or injured) In 2022, there were ~25.1 million teens[1], of whom ~67% used TikTok[2], for a total of ~16.8 million on TikTok (totally ignoring anyone under 12 or over 17). I know the numbers are hacky because the first group includes younger chil…

Debating the minutiae of the number of school shootings is just...sad. The total number of children who should die in school shootings should always be 0. It's not even particularly hard. Practically every country in the world manages to achieve that target.

Incorrect. Some do, many don't, unless of course you're racist and don't consider quite a bit of the developing world worth your notice. Is that the case?
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