I do wish someone would just acknowledge we’ve been getting “final warnings” as well as predictions of catastrophe every few years for decades now. Just recognize that I have to force myself quite hard to take this seriously. I do trust the science! But I trusted the science in 2017 and in 2012 and in 2009 and in 2004 and in 2000 and so on. I am making myself trust the science this time, again , and selfishly I would…
> Everyone keeps saying the water is getting hotter! I trust the thermometer I really do! It just doesn't feel like it's getting hotter to me! - the slow-boiling frog
IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
361–370 of 456 posts
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#362I do wish someone would just acknowledge we’ve been getting “final warnings” as well as predictions of catastrophe every few years for decades now. Just recognize that I have to force myself quite hard to take this seriously. I do trust the science! But I trusted the science in 2017 and in 2012 and in 2009 and in 2004 and in 2000 and so on. I am making myself trust the science this time, again , and selfishly I would…
We have been getting warnings like this for years and for years things have been getting visibly worse. I don't know how you "have to force myself quite hard to take this seriously" when the environment around us has been degrading faster than scientist have been claiming for years. Maybe you're confused by how events related to climate catastrophe unfold? It's not like a nuclear bomb where one day everything is fine…
“the environment around us has been degrading faster than scientist have been claiming for years.”
But not faster than science reporting has been claiming, since they have pretty reliably been claiming apocalypse in 5-10 years for 60 years now.
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#363Just in case it saves one person the effort to research this themselves ... for some reason I find the measurement of climate change in units of temperature a bit problematic (though entirely rational). It tends to suggest the old bugbear of "global warming", which of course gets translated by deniers (& skeptics) into "well it's colder here so that's wrong". I spent a while digging in to try to get some numbers on a…
> anyone familiar with complex physical systems will understand that when you add energy to such a system, the effects are often hard to predict This is something that is very underappreciated. It's entirely possible that the climate becomes chaotic (in a mathematical sense) and there are sudden, drastic changes that cause economic and social devastation. It seems inevitable that people will be complacent until it's…
Let's not white-wash the problem.
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#364I see multiple people in this thread are talking about 3 degrees which is unrealistic. While 1.5 seems unlikely at this point 2 degrees is within reach and IMO the most likely outcome. I would even say anything above 2.5 is unrealistic. This chart[1] can be useful, compare it to last predictions and you'll see the reason of my optimism. Also note in the beginning of 2010s solar was very expensive, right now it's (alm…
When I skimmed the summary report for policymakers ( https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6syr/pdf/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf ), on page 23 it seems that we are heading towards a 3.2 degrees increase with current measures.
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't that make it sound like a temporary condition?
It’s a tense thing. The processes is flooding, if it’s already happened then it flooded. Ie: The Bering Strait land bridge flooded 10,000+ years a gap and it’s still under water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beringia Ultimately sea level rise is a temporary thing. Given enough time the oceans will boil as the sun ages unless something drastic changes.
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
Climate activists have been declaring impending doom for years. So much so that it has become an entire industry. NOAA has even altered historical data (eg. https://climatecenter.fsu.edu/does-noaa-adjust-historical-cl... ) to support their ridiculous claims. And when the rise of temperatures didn't meet "expectations" they just moved the goal post. Used to Wikipedia actually had an article for "Global Warming". Where…
> Climate activists have been declaring impending doom for years. What are those "declarations of doom" specifically? What are you actually talking about? From my point of view, climate development went pretty much as predicted >40 years ago-- there is absolutely ZERO reason to assume that the greenhouse effect is somehow a collective hallucination or much weaker than we think. Consider e.g. Hansen et al in Science (…
Well just look at the kind of debates that were going on even back in the 90's, so much talk about total melting of ice caps, sea levels rising to catastrophic levels, unrelentingly sweltering summers. A veritable apocalypse on the horizon, basically.
> From my point of view, climate development went pretty much as predicted >40 years ago-- there is absolutely ZERO reason to assume that the greenhouse effect is somehow a collective hallucination or much weaker than we think.
Maybe an over-reaction would be a more succinct way to describe it. Huge political decisions, past, present, and future are being influenced by the hysteria surrounding this "climate change crisis".
> Consider e.g. Hansen et al in Science (1981): https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1981/1981_Hansen_ha04600x.pd...
> And compare e.g. with https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/global-left-...
> If you look at their predictions, made >40 years ago, then these match the actual development pretty well, and these first papers also said basically the very same stuff that climate scientist are saying right now (but with less detail).
> So again, what are these goalposts that have been moved?
I do concede that the work of Hansen et al is rather compelling. The CO2 predictions were indeed spot on.
The goalposts I was referring to are the claims being made to push certain agendas. When temperature changes turned out to be arguably much milder than expected, the political discussion turned from "global warming" to "climate change". (Soon it will be "climate variability"?)
> So your point is that both greenhouse effect and human CO2 emissions happen as described, but ALL of mainstream science is completely wrong about the effect size? What gives you ANY confidence in this?
> IF your theory is "climate change is a collective hallucination, all data supporting it is fudged" then this would give some easily falsifiable predictions:
> - There should be no change in longer term median temperatures: This is simply not the case-- the trend is in most places ALREADY obvious enough that you can see it by simply taking an arbitrary city and looking at the annual mean temperature.
Again, I am not arguing that humans have had no effect on the environment whatsoever. But I do think that the whole thing has been overblown somewhat.
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#367It's the "final warning" in the sense that the next report is going to be issued in 2030. By that time, 1.5C will be be inevitable. We may not have hit the temperature yet, but only because it takes a few years for the temperature to respond to the greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere. Which is to say, if we don't change right now, then when the next report comes out, we will already have enough CO2 in the atmo…
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
My friends in Canada talk in degrees Celsius by default. They have a basic understanding of Fahrenheit (more than Americans do of Celsius), but it's not their native temperature scale.
Yes, they use both. Celsius primarily, but still both. Ask them how hot their oven is, or the temperature of the pool.
275, 375, 400, 425, and hot are arbitrary settings to me, not particular temperatures. They're comparable only in that they're ordered. This is not an understanding of the scale, beyond knowing that it's talking about temperature. I definitely could not tell you how 100f relates to a standard room temperature of 18C
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do people in capitals not understand or believe this? What do rich people (some of whom control large parts of the media) plan to do exactly? Die? Bunker? I mean seriously.
What are the options, really? Option A is business as usual. Option B is a massive cut in energy consumption. Option A implies at some point in the future, massive social unrest due to mass migration. Option B implies massive social unrest today due to a large decline in standard of living. And no, it won’t be the “people in capitals” suffering here. Option C is option A plus some geoengineering that will likely be u…
Re: IPCC climate crisis report delivers ‘final warning on 1.5C’
#370Just in case it saves one person the effort to research this themselves ... for some reason I find the measurement of climate change in units of temperature a bit problematic (though entirely rational). It tends to suggest the old bugbear of "global warming", which of course gets translated by deniers (& skeptics) into "well it's colder here so that's wrong". I spent a while digging in to try to get some numbers on a…