Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think not very far in the future we are gonna look at the belief that there is something extraordinary about human thought the way we think about geocentrism. That we privileged the human brain simply because it’s ours, because I suspect human thought will end up being not much more than something like a pattern matching mechanism.
There does seem to be something particularly cool about consciousness/qualia. I of course can't qualify that meaningfully beyond just finding it kind of awesome.
What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
361–370 of 518 posts
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#362To me, modern AI is just "black boxes all the way down". Even specialists don't really know what's happening. It's not encouraging or interesting. Personally, I'm more interested in analyzing those black boxes than tinkering ones that "seems to work", would it be with graph theory, analysis, etc. To me, if something works but we're unable to really understand why it does, it's more the realm of "testing broken clocks…
Well, maybe it's not encouraging, but saying it's not interesting seems like willful denial.
There's a saying that in swordfighting, the goal isn't to strike or to parry or to feint, the goal is to stick the pointy end in the other guy, everything else is just a means to that end.
Well, we might not understand the modern AIs' fencing technique, we have no idea why they pick certain feints, and sometimes they collapse on the ground for no reason. But on average, they are really fucking good at sticking the pointy bit in the other guy, and that's the thing that matters.
We can dislike them, we can wish they were better, we can try to improve them, but one thing we can't do is ignore them. Because sooner or later, they'll be everywhere, poorly analyzed or not.
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#363Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well you're just a jumble of electrons and protons interacting with each other. That's a 100% true interpretation is it not? It's also a view that misses the point that you are a molecular intelligence made of DNA that continually mutates and reconstructs it's physical form with generational copies to increase fitness in an ever changing environment. But that viewpoint also misses the point that you're a human with w…
I still don't see your point behind your first 4 paragraphs. How you decide to treat your fellow humans is up to you. Just as you can decide to view your fellow humans however you want. It's entirely possible to treat them like "humans" while still viewing them as nothing but jumbles of molecules and atoms. So again why does perspective matter here (particularly with ChatGPT being a statistical word generator)? Your…
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because of fear. Because of bias. Care to expand a bit more on what you think those fears may be? Or that bias?
I think it's obvious. ChatGPT could be a precursor to a future AI that is more intelligent then humans. I don't think this means skynet apocalypse. I think this means most people will be out of a job. A lot of people on HN take a lot of pride in thinking they have some sort of superior programming skills that places them on the top end of the programming spectrum. ChatGPT represents the possibility that they can be b…
There isn't a lot else in our world that has this seemingly pure and transcendent promise. It allows you to be brave and accepting about something where everone else is fearful. It allows a future that isnt just new iPhone models and SaaS products. You're reactions and fighting people about this stuff is understandable, but you have to make sure you are grounded. Find more local things to grab onto for hope and enthusiasm, this path will not bring you the stuff you are hoping for, but life is long :)
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#366To me, modern AI is just "black boxes all the way down". Even specialists don't really know what's happening. It's not encouraging or interesting. Personally, I'm more interested in analyzing those black boxes than tinkering ones that "seems to work", would it be with graph theory, analysis, etc. To me, if something works but we're unable to really understand why it does, it's more the realm of "testing broken clocks…
It's not that nobody is doing this, it's that we are making very slow advances in our understanding. There are many, many, many different angles you could take and there's so far not a clear answer which one is right. We are uncovering many interesting properties, but some just open more doors than they close. For example, the whole adversarial research (crafting inputs that are misclassified despite being similar to a correct classified example) did not lead to a quick fix but to a whole research area where we are still even trying to understand what exactly we are dealing with. It's not so much that everything is black magic and nobody cares about why the problem is really so hard, but it's instead just hard to to make progress.
> To me, if something works but we're unable to really understand why it does, it's more the realm of "testing broken clocks that work twice a day".
That's not fair. We have extensive empirical tests, it's really been enough time and enough eyes to see that it's not some kind of coincidence or luck but instead we really have uncovered a way to make progress we haven't dreamed about before. It's not a "broken clock works twice a day" situation, we are pretty sure of that.
I understand the frustration, but I can assure you that research is totally aware of NNs pitfalls and our limitations. I can imagine that this situation is weird for someone not into ML. That to the ordinary person, the world seems pretty solved. We understand the basics of physics, chemistry etc. Now here's something where we really lack the basics, even some "newtonian physics", we use something without having a guiding theory. That's so 19th century! As someone interested in theory and empirical basics to understand the properties, I can tell you it's just really hard. Our usual mathematical tools and theories do not exactly fit, from optimization to statistical learning theory. What we do just doesn't make that much sense, but the improvements suggested by these existing theories lead to worse performance. We try to come up with new ideas and new perspective on the different problems, but so far we've not found a promising candidate. It's like early science but it's still scientific.
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#367To me, modern AI is just "black boxes all the way down". Even specialists don't really know what's happening. It's not encouraging or interesting. Personally, I'm more interested in analyzing those black boxes than tinkering ones that "seems to work", would it be with graph theory, analysis, etc. To me, if something works but we're unable to really understand why it does, it's more the realm of "testing broken clocks…
I agree. I’m currently taking a neural networks course and it’s making my discomfort worse, not alleviating it. At the beginning of the course we talked about biological models of neurons and that was pretty cool, if a bit simplistic. Now we’re deep into automatic differentiation and gradient descent and a bunch of hidden layers. Ultimately it’s all just using calculus to approximate some unknown function given a sam…
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think part of it is a subconscious fear. chatGPT/LLMs represent a turning point in the story of humanity. The capabilities of AI can only expand from here. What comes after this point is unknown, and we fear the unknown. I mean, you're right, but isn't it reasonable to fear this? Just about all of us here on HN depend on our brains to make money. What happens when a machine can do this? The outlook for humanity i…
I agree. It is reasonable to fear. I'm more emphasizing how fear effects our perception of reality and causes us to behave irrationally. There's a difference between facing and acknowledging your fears versus running away and deluding yourself against an obvious reality. What annoys me is that there's too much of the later going on. I mean this is what literally happened to the oil industry and tobacco industry. Thos…
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
> deep understanding of self and awareness Come on... you're making it sound like the thing is sentient. It's impressive but it's still a Chinese Room. Although, for searching factual information it still failed me.. I wanted to find a particular song - maybe from Massive Attack or a similar style - with a phrase in the lyrics, I asked Chatty, and it kept delivering answers where the phrase did not appear in the lyri…
> [...] it's still a Chinese Room. So are you, and so am I. That's not to say that ChatGPT is sentient or has a significant amount of personhood, but we shouldn't wholly dismiss its significance in this regard, particularly not using that faulty argument.
Re: What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work?
#370The answer to this is: "we don't really know as its a very complex function automatically discovered by means of slow gradient descent, and we're still finding out" Here are some of the fun things we've found out so far: - GPT style language models try to build a model of the world: https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.13382 - GPT style language models end up internally implementing a mini "neural network training algorithm" (…
That Kenneth Li Othello paper is great. The accompanying blog post https://thegradient.pub/othello/ was discussed on HN here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34474043 A lot of people didn't seem to get it when it was discussed on HN. A GPT had _only_ ever seen Othello transripts like: "E3, D3, C4 ..." and NOTHING else. It knows nothing of the board. It doesnt event know that there are two players. It learned Othe…
Excuse my ignorance, but how is this useful? This seems to indicate only that they found the "bits" in the internal state.