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Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

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Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#361

Post by carlosjobim »

password11 wrote: post #292
carlosjobim wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CC transaction fee is generally about half of that. A normal sized restaurant will have their own merchant accounts for CC transactions and not pay the POS provider any percentage.

According to https://www.clover.com/pricing/quick-service-restaurant Clover's fees are: Card-present transactions 2.3% + 10¢ Keyed‑in transactions 3.5% + 10¢ So if you have a merchant acct, you'd have to negotiate rates with Clover et al. directly?

That's just one POS system, with a very unfavorable price. Most restaurants of medium size and up will not pay high rates like that on their transactions. If you have a merchant account you negotiate rates with your bank (or other account provider). The POS just connects with that. And yes, these POS systems are an expensive one-time purchase, with some yearly or monthly fees. However much more economical than paying on transactions.

If you're a smaller actor, there are POS systems that make their money on your transactions, but even among those Clover is a really bad deal. Compare to Zettle for example, that comes with a POS system, has no monthly costs and a flat 1.75% fee: https://www.zettle.com/gb/pricing

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#362

Post by OkGoDoIt »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #346
chottocharaii wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in America you're an asshole if you do this. Tipping is the well-established cultural way for servers to make income. It is -not- something reserved for situations where good service is to be incentivized. Maybe in other countries ... but not the United States.

What I don’t get is tipping for take out. Like, no server was involved, just someone handing you a box at the restaurant, and you are still expected to tip 20% (Or is it 25% now?).

Does anyone actually expect you to tip for takeout? I kind of assume the point-of-sale system including tip options on there is just because the system doesn’t have an easy way to disable it for takeout orders.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#363

Post by dTal »

bruce511 wrote: post #297
HelixEndeavor wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day it seems more and more like restaurants in general are a completely unsustainable business unless you want to pay $20 for a cheeseburger.

If you think about it, this is not surprising. Ultimately you are paying for a lot more than the food. Let's assume you can make the meal yourself at home. You'd pay for the ingredients, but probably ignore all the other costs. A) labor is the obvious first candidate. Purchaser, chef, server, host, barman, dishwasher, table cleaner- there are lots of people involved. The price of your meal should include labor at fai…

>So yeah, small establishments with very low overhead (think food trucks) can be both good and good value. But most places either have to skimp on quality (think most fast food) or try and externalise the cost (via tipping etc)

Option C: charge sustainable prices and honestly post them, like nearly every other business. Why is this so hard for restaurants especially? Imagine going for a haircut and having to choose between 1) a minimum viable haircut administered by a minimum wage unskilled teen, or 2) navigating a byzantine pricing structure where (among other gotchas) you're supposed to pay more than the posted price by an undocumented amount determined by cultural osmosis.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#364

Post by OkGoDoIt »

mhdhn wrote: post #349
illumin8 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've noticed recently on 2 restaurant trips in the last couple weeks: The automatic tip calculations are wrong in the server/restaurant's favor. Most of us typically check the 20% option and don't double-check the math, but in the past these calculations were always done pre-tax. If your food came to $100 and you tipped 20%, the total would be $120 + sales tax. Now, the last 2 times I've eaten out the autom…

Seen it all over, always assumed it was mistakes in software design or product management by the restaurant software developers.

Square lets the admin explicitly choose whether to calculate tips before or after tax, and the default is after tax.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#365

Post by carlosjobim »

michaelmrose wrote: post #264
carlosjobim wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not right. The crime being committed is fraud and the guilty party is the restaurant. If they refuse payment for the actual payment, that is their problem. Any court in any jurisdiction in the world will side with the customer in a case such as OPs.

Why hasn't anyone court in any jurisdiction found this by now then? Added fees are pernicious and annoying but I'm not aware of them being found to be illegal. The most likely end result is the court finds your lawsuit is frivolous and simply dismisses it then you end up paying the $8 charge if you are unlucky legal fees for bringing a frivolous suit. Instead of relying on your fictional understanding of how the law…

>The most likely end result is the court finds your lawsuit is frivolous and simply dismisses it

You're completely right, the case will get thrown out. If you remember, in your scenario it is the restaurant suing the customer for not paying the 20% fraudulent fee, it's not the customer suing the restaurant.

Trying to add a fee after the price has been agreed and the food consumed is plain fraud. That's why they won't take you to court. If you dispute it while in the restaurant, they will let it go. Because they know the justice system will side with the customer.

Imagine for example if Ticket Master would charge extra fees after a concert, preventing you to leave if you do not pay. Not even they would do such a thing.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#366

Post by rlpb »

michaelmrose wrote: post #103
MichaelNolan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be able to do that with a card as well. They can’t charge your card more than you authorize. (And if they did a call to the CC company will get it all taken care of).

They can decline to charge payment for anything other than the full figure leaving you with the ability to walk out or pay. If you opt not to pay you are dining and dashing and subject to prosecution the fact that you offered to partially pay notwithstanding. Logically pay the bill then leave a negative review and never eat there again.

> If you opt not to pay you are dining and dashing...

No. If they refuse to charge your card the agreed amount then they are refusing to take your money and that's no longer your problem.

They might well claim otherwise, and you might well end up in a scene, but please don't accept their fraudulent framing, or spread the idea that they are somehow in the right with that framing.

If it's prosecution you fear, then consider that they can prosecute you for anything at any time. Why not a 100% fee? A 200% fee? Ten times the agreed amount? At what point will you refuse to pay?

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#367

Post by OkGoDoIt »

technofiend wrote: post #257
ryandrake wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This didn't work last time I called Comcast. I told them I wasn't happy that my Internet bill went up again by $15 and that if they can't reduce it back to what it was, I wanted them to cancel it. They placed me on hold while I sat there grinning about my awesome negotiation skills. Expected to get sent on to customer retention where I could get a better deal. Then the rep came back on and said "As requested, your in…

Despite reservations, I've been looking at AT & T's fibre plan because 2 gigabit symmetrical service pre-tax is about what Comcast charges post-tax, which has slowly been drifting up every month. The truly irritating thing about AT & T's disclaimers is they say it could take a few billings cycles before your new customer discount pricing is applied. Yet I am quite certain your discount pricing will end precisely on t…

Comcast also no longer lets you bring your own equipment, you have to use their horribly terrible modem-router combo which overheats constantly and needs to be physically unplugged from power to cool off (at least a couple times a week, in a well ventilated cool location).

Sure, Comcast is legally required to let you use your own equipment. How do they square that circle? You can bring your own equipment for a very crappy, lower speed, insanely low data-capped, highly restricted service. If you want actual Internet service that is reasonable, you have to get the special upgraded plan which requires you to use their modem-router combo. that upgrade cost extra money, although you get the extra fee waived for the first year or two depending on the current promotion. So the net effect is it’s a technicality forcing you to use their hardware (with the explicit threat of higher prices in the future). Technically complying with the letter of the law, while completely screwing over their users. A very Comcastic thing to do.

(for reference, I am in San Francisco, but in a part of town that has no other options than to use Comcast or slow DSL. Comcast policies and trickery very widely across the country.)

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#368

Post by hinata08 »

fencepost wrote: post #279
JKCalhoun wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was being trained to work at a McDonald's restaurant (like four decades ago) they had us watch an awesome PSA about "the customer". To this day I remember the closer spoken by the poorly treated customer in the video, "I don't get mad, I just don't come back." I've left notes on my bill explaining to "management" why I'm not returning to a particular restaurant. I don't like doing it, but I think someone needs…

I've left notes on my bill explaining to "management" why I'm not returning It's likely much more effective explaining in a review why you're not returning.

I figured that out as well

But I realized that it was not encouraging for management to have complaint emails. And I hardly had a reply back (I assume most businesses just don't care)

Nowadays I'm once again just the silent customer who doesn't come back.

However, I can hapilly reply to polls, reviews, or send thank you emails to businesses that I liked, to encourage them.

I get a lot of _you welcome_ replies. And a small company even indicating that they would include my review in their staff training, to show what points customers liked.

So instead of being negative, I found it was more constructive to have a positive perspective on services that were worth it, to make them more stable.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#369

Post by benj111 »

adamc wrote: post #100
benj111 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't pay the fee. Or call the manager over and ask why they arent paying their staff properly. Companies only pull this stuff because they get away with it. Don't make it worth their while.

Unfortunately, for many people that ruins their night out. It is often more practical to pay it and never return.

Surely the night is already ruined by restaurants pulling this shit?

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#370

Post by ExoticPearTree »

chottocharaii wrote: post #237
II2II wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants must be happy that I am not the type of person who eats out more than once or twice a year. I don't tip unless there is table service. I withhold tips if the quality of the product is bad (sorry servers). Even in social situations. That doesn't mean I don't tip when it is appropriate, but I view it as more of an incentive for good service than to reinforce bad business practices. I'm not sure how I would…

If you live in America you're an asshole if you do this. Tipping is the well-established cultural way for servers to make income. It is -not- something reserved for situations where good service is to be incentivized. Maybe in other countries ... but not the United States.

So what you're saying is that we should tip no matter what?
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