Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers • Hacker News Board

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#361

Post by xattt » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 12:58 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #253

xattt wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be the 10th man and add to the nihilism. Consumer protections are there not for the consumer, but to create some sort of artificial social stability through recourse and take the wind out of any social uprising.

I'm confused by your nihilism. If the outcome is that I can get my money back (and I would argue that 250k covers a VAST majority of people, and then some), isn't that a fair trade for me not killing and eating a banker?

True consumer protection would allow people to have immediate remediation (rather than on a weeks-to-months timeline), and also hold the responsible parties accountable beyond a fine that’s a rounding error in terms of profits.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#362

Post by jesprenj » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

newaccount74 wrote: post #71

jesprenj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of the rest of the world has had for a decade or more What specific system are you implying? In Slovenia, I can't make a bank transfer online when my bank is closed (at night). Money transfer between banks costs me 40 cents per transaction and international transfer in the EU costs me around 7 €. Maestro card is instant and free and works even when the bank is closed, but it is only used for spending money. I…

> international transfer in the EU costs me around 7 € Are you sure about that? I thought with SEPA all Euro transfers within the EU have to be the same fee as national transfers, which is free for almost all consumer bank accounts in Austria. My bank charges for instant transfers on my business account (around 8€), but other than that all transfers are free.

You are right, I verified this now. EU payments cost me the same amount as domestic payments.

The ~7 € charge I remember was probably due to conversion. I wanted to send money to Croatia, which at the time did not use Euro yet.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#363

Post by jen20 » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:54 PM UTC

browningstreet wrote: post #161

ctoth wrote: post #10

I have long been terrified of something shaped a bit like this. Here in the US we already treat most workers like absolute garbage. If one day the Average Joe wakes up and finds that all his money is merely some electronic scribbles in a database which have mysteriously gone missing, the social unrest is probably something that most people on this site couldn't even conceptualize of. Today it's Zelle, but what happen…

I work for a bank in the US, and not one of the names you hear associated with scandals all the time. The level of redundancy and HA built into our everything is why our jobs are so boring and slow. We also use a core banking platform that lots of other banks use and it's properly engineered for the kind of enterprise performance we'd all expect. There are certainly problems in banking, but the FDIC protections are a…

> engineered for the kind of enterprise performance

It took me a while to realize that this is the first time in ages (outside of cringeworthy marketing materials) I’ve seen “enterprise” used as something other than a pejorative!

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#364

Post by courgette » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

kbelder wrote: post #355

cuteboy19 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refunded routinely is the answer btw

I'd say the vast majority is incredibly honest.

As a long term foreigner in your country. Yes. Y'all are incredibly honest. You would NOT leave 20+ credit card under the supervision of an underpay bartender in France. Stuff would happen.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#365

Post by jesprenj » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

watermelon0 wrote: post #66

jesprenj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of the rest of the world has had for a decade or more What specific system are you implying? In Slovenia, I can't make a bank transfer online when my bank is closed (at night). Money transfer between banks costs me 40 cents per transaction and international transfer in the EU costs me around 7 €. Maestro card is instant and free and works even when the bank is closed, but it is only used for spending money. I…

EU countries (and a few others) are part of SEPA, where we have SEPA Instant Payments, which offer instant payments between bank accounts, 24/7. Price depends on the bank (and the type of bank account you have), but it's about 1 EUR or less. --- Many countries also have local payment systems, that are usually limited to a single country. For example, in Slovenia, we have Flik Pay, which allows sending money between i…

I see - probably the Nujno (urgent) checkbox on a SEPA form activates this SEPA instant payment.

I know about Flik and I like the appeal of it, but I do not use it because it requires a proprietary client (NLB Pay in my case). Do you know of any public or reverse engineered specification or unofficial FOSS client?

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#366

Post by CyberDildonics » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 2:49 PM UTC

Laaas wrote: post #358

idiotsecant wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious to me that this is downvoted, I am practically a crypto evangelist and have been since the beginning but even I acknowledge that the BTC network's capacity is extremely, extremely low. It's not suitable as a world-wide transaction engine, not even for relatively infrequent transaction types like store of value accounts that don't move around. There have been some half-hearted attempts to fix this (lightn…

In what way does Lightning not solve the problem?

How does it solve the problem in any way?

If we take a step back, we should also realize that no other cryptocurrency has this problem. You just let the throughput be higher and it works, because 1 KB/s is completely absurd in 2023.

Any transaction still has to make it on to the chain. A side chain would be like us playing catch in the back yard and thinking we will somehow be padding our major league baseball stats. It doesn't matter until something happens where it counts.

If you find someone to play catch with, that's great, but the whole point of a global transaction network is that anyone can send a balance to anyone else.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#367

Post by Maursault » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

noahtallen wrote: post #263

Maursault wrote: post #110

Zelle is the choice of scammers. Incidentally, Zelle offers no guarantees or refunds. I don't know why anyone would use Zelle under those circumstances. Some banks will automagically sign their customers up for Zelle accounts, exposing them to scam risks for which there is no resolution. Money gone.

IMO, the risk is pretty minimal. Zelle isn’t a 3rd party payment platform — it’s a feature/standard a bank implements to give you instant peer-to-peer bank transfers. Zelle the company is owned by the banks, including Bank of America. So this is just BoA adding a feature they partly created to their banking suite. That in itself isn’t a red flag. Zelle itself is also secure. You have to be fully logged into your bank…

> Zelle itself is also secure.

Zelle has been subject to tens of thousands of scams. If it's so secure, why doesn't Zelle have any guarantees? If money ever goes out, it will never come back, unlike competitors such as PayPal which have a successful refund process.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#368

Post by martinflack » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

svggrfgovgf wrote: post #205

pkaye wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Texas has so many reported burglaries though? https://www.statista.com/statistics/232539/burglaries-report...

Probably because these statistics are based on reported burglaries as opposed to the actual number of burglaries. It's my impression from various threads and news articles that people in California have given up on reporting all sorts of crimes due to the lack of prosecution.

California is a big place with a lot of varying community attitudes... that sounds like quite a big assumption.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#369

Post by idiotsecant » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

Laaas wrote: post #358

idiotsecant wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious to me that this is downvoted, I am practically a crypto evangelist and have been since the beginning but even I acknowledge that the BTC network's capacity is extremely, extremely low. It's not suitable as a world-wide transaction engine, not even for relatively infrequent transaction types like store of value accounts that don't move around. There have been some half-hearted attempts to fix this (lightn…

In what way does Lightning not solve the problem?

Lightning has a fundamental graph theory / routing problem. As the number of nodes increase the path between those nodes grows at a nonlinear rate. The internet has this problem too, which it mainly solves by letting a human put a finger on the scale in a centralized fashion. Lightning network cannot make this tradeoff. It's a simple mathematical problem that we've known about for centuries and it's baffling that anyone thought it would help in the first place.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#370

Post by idiotsecant » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 4:48 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #296

idiotsecant wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto isn't terribly hard, depending on the exact context you have in mind when you say 'crypto'. It boils down to keeping your key safe and accessible, or in the custody of someone who can keep your keys safe and accessible. You can literally stamp your keys into some steel plate, bolt them somewhere safe in your house, and forget about them for 30 years. You use a hardware wallet for your day-to-day and a separate…

> Crypto isn't terribly hard ... for you. That's the key. After the Thanksgiving holiday over the course of 2 weeks, I fabricated and installed individually addressable permanent LED holiday lights on my three story house and built out a control box for less than $1000. It wasn't hard... for me. You likely already posses a great deal of knowledge necessary to leverage crypto that a lot of people don't. It's not hard.…

That's not an argument that makes much sense to me, because we do things every day that require a great deal of context and training. At some point someone taught us how to operate a steel missile that burns hydrocarbons to propel us onto a road network where we need to be able to interpret symbols, colors, and complex pre-arranged maneuvers in order to allow us to negotiate this system and not die. That took maybe a few weeks to figure out.

Crypto is not hard, it's in fact quite simple. It's just a matter of training people on a couple of simple rules. You don't need any pre-existing skills, you don't need any expensive equipment, you just need to be motivated to spend a few hours learning a new thing.