Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

theautopian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 714 posts

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#361

Post by gleenn »

nanidin wrote: post #98
gfodor wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean. If autopilot has a bug then there is a good chance a lot of other cars do too, since (afaik) autopilot is not at its core Tesla proprietary tech like FSD.

My point is that as an end user, there is basically no difference between autopilot and FSD if the FSD beta is enabled on the car. It's a technical detail that doesn't seem significant. If the end user said they were driving on FSD, it likely means they are enrolled in the FSD beta and were using autopilot - in the car there is no distinction between autopilot and FSD. They are the same thing in the car if the FSD be…

What's the difference if you have a Tesla that is FSD capable but it is disabled? I bought into FSD because I had the cash but disabled it.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#362

Post by throw827474737 »

int_19h wrote: post #244
paulryanrogers wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you maintain safe distance from those in adjacent lanes? Especially if they may come from behind you, suddenly change lanes in front, then break hard?

You do not, but that wasn't the hypothetical posited by OP. In the actual case with Tesla, the driver of the car that was in front of the pile-up was not at fault IMO. But there were a bunch more cars behind, and at least some of those slammed into each other because they didn't maintain proper distance, according to the police.

Are we looking at the same video? The turn signal is on long before, the lane change of the car starts long before.. you don't see any reaction of the following driver even when the Tesla's tires finally cross the line, which is the latest point where the following driver must adapt apeed and distance, but nothing happens?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#363

Post by userbinator »

smileysteve wrote: post #271
scotty79 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the intention matters. If you did it to spite the guy behind you then you are at fault. If you did it because you thought something might cross the road and just wanted to be safe then it's not your fault even if nothing crossed the road or nothing was really there.

or lack of intention. If an engine throws a rod, if a driveshaft pole vaults, if a wheel falls off, or a suspension component catastrophically fails. These are all realistic sudden stop issues that our laws mostly accommodate.

No, those are not "sudden stop" situations either.

In fact the worst thing to do is to stop suddenly.

Even if a wheel falls off, you do not slam on the brakes unless you want to lose even more control.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#364

Post by ht85 »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #359
prmoustache wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly applicable if there is no sudden lane change. True you should always keep a safe enough distance for you to react and brake in any case with the car in front of you. If that car was too close on another lane, switch to yours and brake simultaneously this is a bit different.

The first car to collide with the Tesla is least at fault, but obviously still partially at fault. None of the other cars in the pileup have that excuse though.

Was the first car speeding? If not, how were they at fault?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#365

Post by lynx23 »

sokoloff wrote: post #141
int_19h wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be shocked and disappointed? It is the obligation of the driver trailing you to maintain enough distance to be able to stop safely if the car in front of them has to brake hard for whatever reason. The fact that your hard braking wasn't actually necessary may mean that you're also responsible, but it doesn't absolve the other driver.

As a matter of pragmatism, the person intentionally putting other drivers at unnecessary risk by being an asshole should bear the responsibility for the outcomes of that intentional and unnecessary risk they elected to subject roadway users to.

I agree. But this should also apply to those drivers that experiment with FSD. After all, they were playing with tech on a public road, so deliberately putting others at risk.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#366

Post by mtsr »

prmoustache wrote: post #358
AmericanChopper wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the fault in this video seems attributable to the other motorists. I was always taught that it was my responsibility to ensure that I have enough following distance, and am paying close enough attention, to stop if the car in front of you abruptly stops. Is this not the case in California? Because the first car seems at least partially at fault in this respect, and every other contributor to the pile up is si…

This is mostly applicable if there is no sudden lane change. True you should always keep a safe enough distance for you to react and brake in any case with the car in front of you. If that car was too close on another lane, switch to yours and brake simultaneously this is a bit different.

The whole scenario would look very similar if the Tesla was a car suffering from a breakdown and moving to the safest lane it can reach safely. In such a case we would also expect other drivers to pay enough attention to prevent an accident like this...

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#367

Post by AmericanChopper »

ht85 wrote: post #364
AmericanChopper wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first car to collide with the Tesla is least at fault, but obviously still partially at fault. None of the other cars in the pileup have that excuse though.

Was the first car speeding? If not, how were they at fault?

It’s almost impossible to rear-end another car without being at least partially at fault. The lane change from the Tesla was obviously dangerous, but the first car to collide with it had sufficient warning and time to react. You can see that they did react, but they obviously didn’t expect the Tesla to come to a full stop, which is why the first collision took place. I believe the legal term for this is contributory negligence.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#368

Post by suslik »

MengerSponge wrote: post #320
kart23 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think what's interesting here is it's likely the first instance where Tesla FSD has been involved in an accident which affected other drivers. Autopilot has killed multiple motorcyclists, and is suspected in many other cases, totaling 19 fatalities. This isn't the first, our regulatory bodies are just incredibly slow at this. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/tesla-faces-new-probes-... https://www.theverge.com/2…

But motorcyclists rank just above bicyclists, and just below deer. Nobody actually gets in trouble for hitting them on the road. I would love to see manslaughter charges for more accidents. If I do a whoopsie and stab someone in my home, I'm not going to get off with a "oh my god I'm so sorry! I was tired and it was foggy." People driving should be extended the same courtesy.

Or just solve the problem by banning motorcycles. Motorcycles should stay on race tracks where they belong, not on foggy roads with tired commuters.

Same with normal bikes, by the way: cycling on the same road with fast-driving cars should not be an actual phenomenon. I cycle to work every day, and love it, but would never do it if there wasn't a separate bike lane.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#369

Post by mtsr »

tempestn wrote: post #304
sokoloff wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I brake check someone on the highway, causing an accident, and it’s discovered that that’s what happened, I’d be pretty shocked* if the trailing driver was found responsible. That video looks like a combined lane change and brake check on the part of the Tesla. * and disappointed

Yes. Watching the second video, you can see the second car's brake lights come on quite quickly, given the Tesla's actions were completely strange and unexpected. Less than a second from when the Tesla cuts in front and starts braking to the vehicle behind hitting the brakes. They're definitely not at fault. Some of the cars that piled in behind were a different matter though. Some were able to stop while others didn…

They didn't actually stop their car, though. And it really looks like they could have, had they braked a little bit harder. But that may be due to the unexpected nature of the Tesla coming to a full stop.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#370

Post by mschuster91 »

There is one additional part in play: the drivers following the Tesla clearly didn't keep their distance. Normally, at least here in Germany, drivers are supposed to keep enough distance from those driving in front of them that, even in the situation that something like a brake defect forcing the car in front to a complete stop or a truck blowing a tire, they do not crash into it.
Post reply on HN